Wikipedia:Peer review/Emily Dickinson/archive1

Emily Dickinson

I've been working on this article for a month and a half or so, and I believe it's nearly there. It passed GA on 12/26 and received a thorough copy-edit and plenty of great ideas from Scartol (copy-editor) and User:Awadewit (GA reviewer), all of which can be read on the talk page. I hope to receive some helpful comments/suggestions about article content as well as style in order to steer me towards a successful FAC nomination in a couple weeks. I'm specifically concerned with polishing the "Poetry" section (especially the "Reception", which still needs work), but anything would be much appreciated. :) Thanks, María (habla conmigo) 17:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style. If you would find such a review helpful, please click here. Thanks, APR _t 01:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Obviously, this is an outstanding article -- massively researched and carefully written! I'm a new editor here, just starting to write my first articles, so I can only stand in awe of the care and time that you took with this.

Still, though, no matter how good anything is others can always find small ways to complain. So, here are a few minor suggestions, meant very constructively.

• I feel you're right that the Reception section has gaps.
  • Your introduction to the Blackmur blockquote ("Dickinson was not generally thought a great poet among . . . ") is not fairly worded to suggest his balance of enthusiasms and reservations.
  • You jump from that quote to the response from second generation feminists in an abrupt way that might be taken to imply that the change to a wholly positive attitude had to wait for those feminists (almost as if ED's position would only be important to women, not to poets in general). Although I don't have research to support my feeling, that is certainly not true. For example, I was brought up as a teenager (around 1960, long before Adrienne Rich) on what, if I remember correctly, was The Pocket Book of Modern Verse, Washington Square Press, 1954 (or The New Pocket Anthology of American Verse, Pocket Library, 1955). Its editor, Oscar Williams left us readers in no uncertainty that the bedrock of all that is good, true, and modern in American poetry consists of Walt Whitman and Emily Dickinson -- and he supported that with extensive selections from ED. If I recall, he stated these opinions as facts, known to everyone of sense. So I suspect there are many good sources (not necessarily Williams himself) in between Blackmur and Rich.

• I agree. I'll add a few more intermittent opinions and qualify Blackmur better.

• • Your final two sentences in that section ("Feminist criticism, on the other hand . . .") are essential to the heart of the article. I personally feel they deserve expansion to one or more independent paragraphs, supported by more sources including hopefully at least some men. As an example of what I mean, the structure and positioning in the current Modernism article (which is IMHO a jumbled grab bag) suggests that nascent feminism was the main cause of the rise of modernism. A conclusion so unbalanced would be untrue. However, equally certainly, several major pioneer modernists were women; and it's reasonable to conjecture that their status as women was important to them. Therefore, your ED article would be a prime place for balanced evidence to be presented that shows how being a woman in 19th century America affected ED's personality and both the subject matter and the form of her poetry.

• Although I agree to a certain extent (nothing for certain can ever be said about Dickinson's life or influence in regards to her poetry, and I refuse to speculate along with the other clueless critics), I don't want to get too extensive with this; the article is already at 60kb, which is HUGE for any article, let alone a biography. There could definitely be a separate, main article dedicated to Reception of Emily Dickinson, but right now I'm just concentrating on the important parts. :)

• • It would be great if you could quote any sources you find for her influence on modernism generally (in addition to specifically as a woman).
• You could use more material on the poems as poems -- as poetry.
  • You repeatedly mention the short line length, lack of rhyme, unorthodox capitals and punctuation. However, surely there is much more, much deeper, in ED's poetry -- both its subject matter and its technique -- that eventually had, I suspect, a profound influence in American modernism.

• Again, I don't want to get too in depth for fear of drowning in prose. Common themes are explored, as are some of the genres that she is often affiliated with; what else did you have in mind?

• • Coincidentally, earlier today I added an analysis of "Because I could not stop for Death" to Poetics. You'd be welcome to reuse that material or, of course, to go to the book I reported on. (In any case, I would also appreciate it if the ED article linked to Poetics.) This is the kind of material you could include more of. How does ED's poetry work? If I were an aspiring poet, in what areas could ED teach me? Your sources must have lots of it.

• Again, an in depth analysis of the poetry is something that would work great in a subpage (Poetry by Emily Dickinson?), but there's really no room for it here.

• • In particular, the "Style and Themes" section could be stronger.
    • Its balance now, somehow, might allow a reader to come away that with the idea that ED's contribution was to invent doggerel rhythms.
    • Although it's not the main point, the suggestiveness of ED's verse for song writers is even stronger than you indicate. Her listing at The Lied and Art Song Texts Page runs to 237 items! You might mention this, and you might include the page in "External Links."
• Very small points:
  • As a mathematician, I'm uncomfortable with the use of the word "average" in footnote 1. I'm also not completely happy with the grammar. This may be more correct: "Sources differ as to the number of poems that were published during Emily Dickinson's lifetime, but most put it between seven and ten."

•  Done

• • I think the wording of the following sentence in "Style and Themes" is not what you mean: "Her poems are often short to match the length of her lines." It could be taken as implying that poems with short lines are necessarily short. Obvious exceptions will occur to anyone: "La Belle Dame Sans Merci" and especially "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner."

• Yes, but Dickinson's poems are. :)

But, apart from these small suggestions, which are only my humble opinions, this is fine work. Congratulations! William P. Coleman (talk) 23:00, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments! María (habla conmigo) 23:43, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Another minor point. The article indicates that Emily was "probably" influenced by Letters from New York. It's hard to tell from the reference whether that statement is made in the source or not, although the location of the citation gives the impression that it isn't, at least to me. Maybe placing the citation outside the punctuation might indicate that the possibility of being influenced is included there as well. That's the only real reservation I can see, though. Great work! John Carter (talk) 14:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I've become so anal about making sure there's a source for every quotation that I didn't see the clear implication you've pointed out, which I agree with. But I still worry about leaving a quote unsourced. Perhaps it would be more suitable if I found a separate and additional ref for the assertion of influence? I'm positive I can find something in Habegger or Sewall. Thanks! María (habla conmigo) 14:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

• Random comments... The first paragraph in the lede is a bit weak - I wonder if it might be worthwhile to sort of "tease" her writing style here before delving into it more deeply in that second paragraph. My personal opinion too is that the Family background section carries a bit too much weight; I would recommend trimming it a bit; let's get to Emily already! Under the maturity subsection, "However, Dickinson's state of mind in 1850 was greatly affected by another untimely death: that of Leonard Humphrey, who was the principal of the Academy for the last year of her stay" might read more succinctly as "However, Dickinson's state of mind was greatly affected in 1850 by the death of Leonard Humphrey, principal of the Academy for the last year of her stay." Or not. The first paragraph under "Decline and death" is very short - consider expanding? Also, I think an image of Dickinson's preserved home would make a great addition to the "Legacy" section. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

• You make a lot of good points here. I'm not sure what you mean by "teasing" the poetry style in the first paragraph of the lead, though, would you mind explaining this further? The "Family background" may be a little too comprehensive, I agree, but I'm not sure where to cut without removing the essence of the importance and weight that the Dickinson name carried, you know? I feel their affluence and influence is an important factor in Emily's life. Maybe I'm just a little bit partial. :)
• The reason behind the "another untimely death" and the awkward colon is that Humphrey's death followed that of the death from her childhood, which also affected her. Is that clear enough? I thought it was important to create continuity in the prose or else the effect would be lost entirely.
• I'm not sure what to add to the first paragraph under "Decline and death", but I agree that it's far too short, so I'll work on that!
• About a photo of the Homestead: I would love to have such a thing on the article, but unfortunately no free image exists. There is Image:The Homestead.JPG, but it's copyrighted and the fair use rationale is flimsy at best. So, regrettably, all I have is the Evergreens. Unless you know someone who lives in or near Amherst? :)

Feel free to ignore whatever comments are less helpful and don't sweat it. As far as that image, I'll see what I can do about making it out to Amherst next time I have a chance to visit family in Mass. It's a bit off my beaten path, but I'll do my best. Give me about... well... six months. :) --Midnightdreary (talk) 03:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

That would be wonderful if you could, but I promise not to keep my hopes up. :) María (habla conmigo) 17:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Additional comment: I noticed you've relied very heavily on your Habegger source - for verifiability, I'd feel more comfortable with a more even distribution of multiple sources. Just food for thought, I suppose. --Midnightdreary (talk) 23:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

• Habegger is the most recent of the biographies and arguably the most reliable, which is why I ended up using it more than Sewall or Wolff; although that may change when a new one comes out whenever, of course. Sewall also tended to go way off topic, talking about random cousins and local people, while Wolff tended to digress about poetry analysis. Anyway, would it help if I added multiple sources for some refs? I think Awadewit suggested that during the GA review and I did use two citations for four or five references, I think, so I could carry on with that. Thanks for your comments, I appreciate it! María (habla conmigo) 02:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

• Update I condensed some of the information about her family's background, so now it's two full paragraphs rather than nearly three. I also added an extra sentence regarding Dickinson's prolific writing and lack of reception during her lifetime; also added was a tiny bit of info about Vinnie in the first paragraph in the "Decline and death" section, so now it's a little more fleshed out, but still short. Thanks! María (habla conmigo) 17:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Perfection! --Midnightdreary (talk) 18:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Roger Davies (1st pass)

First, I'd like to say what an interesting and informative article this is. I came to this completely ignorant of Emily Dickinson and learned much. The main problem with the article is that it's over-written. Too much honing and polishing has knocked the stuffing out of it in places, resulting in complicated and over-dense sentences. I am familiar, I think, with this as it sometimes afflicts my own writing :) I usually put the article aside for a week or so and come it again with fresh eyes, and new distance. Reading it out aloud also helps: I re-write - usually for simplicity - the bits I stumble over. Anyway, here are a few initial thoughts:

The intro

• It jumps around and probably needs a re-write or, re-casting much of the same material to fit into a tighter, more logical structure. (Suggestion below.)
• First par: the thrust of the second and third sentences is more or less the same and both say "during her lifetime".
• The scale of her work is re-visited in the second and third pars.
• Editing for publication is discussed in the second par and revisited in the third par.
• Perhaps the information could be re-grouped, perhaps along the following lines:

• 1st par: Biographical details. Brief character/personality sketch. (What was she really like?) Reclusive nature. Eccentricities. Parental influence. Lived in the same house most of her life. Solitary nature: "her only real companions were the hills, the sundown, and her dog, Carlo"
• 2nd par: Corpus. Prolific letter-writer/poet. Interest in music and use of song-meters. Themes explored. Illness and the deepening menace of death. Melancholia. Styles used. Genre discussion. How she self-identified. The mentors in her life.

• 3rd par: Little published during her lifetime. What was published was heavily edited to suit contemporary tastes. Why and how it was edited.
• 4th par: Post-mortem discovery of her work. Publishing history. Her legacy. Composers adapting her poems. Perhaps mention of debate over dashes and layout.

• I think you're exactly right about this. I've reorganized the information somewhat as you suggested, and added a little more information, but I'll probably work on expanding this further. I would prefer to keep the lead to three paragraphs, however, so I combined your second and third paragraph suggestions. María (habla conmigo) 18:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Good work there. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I think I'm finished with the lead for now. I like it much better this way.

Family background

• Two or thee words need inserting in the opening sentence to explicitly characterise the family, to set the scene for what follows: prosperous, land-owning, well-established etc.

* the achievement of her family's six generations in America was readily apparent Empty sentence unless you briefly explain what the achievement was.

• It is empty, isn't it? I've removed the intro sentence and changed the second sentence to: After settling in Wethersfield, Connecticut to become a successful land-owner and farmer, Dickinson moved his family...

• Mention that Samuel Dickinson was her grandfather.

• It already says this in the first paragraph of this section: It was here that Emily Dickinson's paternal grandfather, Samuel Fowler Dickinson, was born in 1775.

• The sentence about The Homestead the house on Main Street could probably go intio the next section. ("Emily was born in the same house where she was to spend most of her life....")

• Hm, not sure about this... I may have to think about reordering it.

Childhood

* By all accounts, young Emily was a well-behaved girl ... "She is a very good child & but little trouble". The intervening information is tangential: perhaps cut it vigorously?

• It's been cut; way too much info, I agree.

Reads much better. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

• Her parents only accommodated her talent when her father bought a piano for her at the age of fourteen. Perhaps recast as It was to be ten years before her father bought her, aged fourteen, a piano.

• This is probably the third suggestion I've had to rewrite this blasted sentence. :)

Let's look at it again later. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

* "two-story house" --> "two-storey house".

•  Done

* ... Emily was forced to miss a great deal of school for health reasons. What was/were the illness/es?

• No one knows; I've added "unknown" before "health reasons"

• I'd be tempted to suggest taking some material from this and some from the following maturity section to create a "Late childhood" or "Teenage and education" section.

• I considered doing just that, but I was afraid there were already too many subsections as it were.

No need to wory on that score. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Great! "Late childhood" section created.

Maturity

• This section is very long.
• Did she keep the garden herself? Was it her pride and joy? This is implied but not explicitly stated. Anything about it in her writing?

• Other than a few mentions of "specimens", I'm not aware of it being mentioned at length in her letters. I'll look into it.

• Contains another reference to unspecified illness.
• In 1846, Dickinson confided to a friend that she briefly and mistakenly believed that she had found salvation ... This needs preamble for context I think. Just a word or two. Perhaps move the later reference to rebelling against "evangelical teachers" here and build it into a paragraph that deals specifically and exclusively with religion.

• I'm not sure I could do this and not fall into the trap of speculation, like other biographers often do. The only thing known for certain is that Dickinson did not convert at any point in her life although many members of her family and close friends did. The rebelling at Holyoke is only speculative, unfortunately, so I don't want to build a full paragraph on something that may not be the case at all. I've added an intro to the paragraph so now it reads: Although Dickinson did not formally accept religion into her life, she confided to a friend in 1846 that she briefly and mistakenly

* Some month/day dates need wikilinking.

•  Done

• Two years after the young man's death Does this refer to Leonard Humphrey? If so, perhaps mention how old he was at death.

• I believe he was in his mid-twenties, but I have to check the sources before I add this.
• 25, to be exact. I've re-written this part so that it now reads: However, Dickinson's state of mind in 1850 was greatly affected by another untimely death. The 25 year-old Leonard Humphrey, who had been principal of the Academy for the last year of her stay, died suddenly of what was called "brain congestion".

Influence and early writing

• he was not orthodox in his religion How? Specify?

• Like Emily, he hadn't been converted. I'm not sure how important an implication this is, however, so I may remove it.
• It's gone, as is their age difference; neither was crucial information.

*He would become the second in a series of older men Who was the first? Remind us explicitly.

•  Done

• Ralph Waldo Emerson's first collected poems, published in 1847, had a liberating effect on young Dickinson How so? Could the Dickinson quote be moved closer to this to clarify?

• Emerson is thought to have been a poetic influence, but again, most of that is speculative. I've reworked the sentence so it now reads Newton likely introduced her to the writings of William Wordsworth and Ralph Waldo Emerson. Emerson's first book of collected poems, which Newton is known to have given her, had a liberating effect on young Dickinson, who wrote shortly after Emerson's death in 1882 that he, "whose name my Father's Law Student taught me, has touched the secret Spring."

*which her brother Austin smuggled into the house for her Why was it necessary to smuggle the book in?

• This was asked by another editor above, so I've explained it further; in short, her father was controlling over the books his daughters read.

• It is often thought that Dickinson's By whom? Specify the scholar/s?

• By everyone, really. I'll add a couple more sources.

*she gave him the same name as the character St. John Rivers' dog, Carlo. Inelegant? She named him Carlo for the dog of an Eyre's character, St. John Rivers.?

• How about she named him Carlo after the character St. John Rivers' dog.?

Less clumsy than mine :) --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

*Years later, villagers recalled the large animal joining Dickinson on walks and visits. Does this need an entire sentence rather than just saying that "she took the large dog everywhere"?

•  Done

*married Austin in 1856 after a four year courtship --> four-year courtship

•  Done

• built a house for him and Sue called the Evergreens, which stood on the west side of the Homestead—Edward had just a year before purchased his father's brick home and the Dickinsons once again took up residence on Main Street. I found this confusing. If Edward had his father's brick house, why did he need the Evergreens? Is this essential detail?

• This is something I found very hard to describe in only one sentence, but it's not important enough to dedicate that much time to. The Evergreens was built next door to the Homestead for Austin and Sue so that they wouldn't move out West and leave the family behind. A year before the Evergreens was built, Edward had purchased the Homestead for himself, his wife, and his two spinster daughters. It is essential in the long run because the family was in such close proximity for the rest of their lives, so I'll find a way to fix the confusion.
• A tentative solution: Edward Dickinson, in order to induce his son not to move west, made Austin full partner. He also built a house for him and Sue called the Evergreens, which stood on the west side of the Homestead—Edward had just a year before purchased his father's brick home and he, along with his wife and daughters, once again took up residence on Main Street.

Seclusion

• Plenty of hints but no real explanation given for her seclusion.

• That's because there isn't one. At least that we know of. Maddening, isn't it? :)

* solidified a strong friendship until his death Solidified? --> Forged? Formed?

• I like "forged".  Done

* the relationship proved to be a central one for Dickinson - More or less repeats the previous statement

• I agree, I've moved that bit.

* until his death and at his death - could be consolidated

• Removed "at his death".

• Emily's mother suffered from longstanding illnesses Which were?

• No idea. Added "unknown".

• clean copies of her work on new stationery Do we need on new stationery?

• I suppose not; removed.

* she was restrained to The Homestead Restrained to? Odd collocation. Perhaps ---> remained at? confined herself within?

• Oo, I like "confined". Changed.

* mother was consistently ill, one of the daughters had to remain constantly at home consistently ---> regularly or permanently or constantly or chronically? had to remain constantly --> had to remain always with her? had to look after her at home?

• Changed to Vinnie stated that because their mother was chronically ill, one of the daughters had to remain always with her;

Publication and productivity

* were a common fixture amongst the family for years to come. fixture ---> feature?

•  Done

• The second and third par duplicate poem information. Perhaps move the new titles from the second par into the references to the same poems in the third par?

* several of her poems were published in Drum Beat ... Another poem appeared in April of that same year Were these also edited?

• Yes; I've made this clearer.

* Anxious, Dickinson posted every subsequent letter The "anxious" needs explaining. What about?

• The common belief is that Emily was afraid of being "found out" because she was decidedly removed and vague about some of her responses to Higginson. Changed it to Anxious to retain some anonymity...

• He did, however, suggest that she delay Why "however"?

• The however was added to contrast his praise of her work; although he saw potential, he suggest that she not publish yet. Is this clear?

* her fondness for self-dramatization Perhaps "dramatic self-characterization"?

• Very nice; changed.

* Although he joined the Union forces as a colonel of the First South Carolina Volunteers shortly after meeting Dickinson, they continued their correspondence until her death The point is lost here in the detail.

• Agreed, I removed the hubbub about his colonel turn.

* they continued their correspondence until her death ---> "they corresponded until her death".

•  Done

• Dickinson told Higginson that he had saved her life in 1862 Is there more context on this? Did he give her something to live for? Was she suicidal?

• Context cannot really be established, unfortunately. She was fairly dramatic in her letters to him, often over exaggerating and sometimes lying outright. I wanted to connect the idea of the moral support he provided and how she feels it "saved her life" to get around the gray area.
• Added "exaggeratedly" in the mix just to make it clear she wasn't trying to off herself. :)

The woman in white

* Dickinson wrote a great deal less number of poems in 1866 Ahem. Perhaps ---> wrote "many fewer poems" or "much less poetry"?

• Er, yeah. That's what I meant. Honest!

* Dickinson never owned another dog and it was not until 1869 that her family brought in a permanent household servant to replace the old one.! I'd rephrase this and the proceding sentence, keeping Carlo in one sentence; and the servant in another :)

• Okay, rewritten to: Beset with personal loss as well as loss of domestic help, it is possible that Dickinson was too overcome to keep up her previous level of writing. Carlo died during this time after sixteen years of companionship; Dickinson never owned another dog. When the household servant of nine years had married and left the Homestead that same year, it was not until 1869 that her family brought in a permanent household servant to replace the old one.

• Around this time, Dickinson's behavior began to change Insights into why would be helpful.

• Wouldn't it, though? :)

* She became a local legend Usual objection to "legend" ---> "acquired local notoriety", "became famous locally" ?

• Changed to acquired local notoriety

• usually clothed in white Perhaps link this more directly to the single surviving garment?

• They're both white; I cannot think of another way to link them.

* It was not until 1870 when he came to Amherst that they had their meeting. Perhaps ---> "It was not until he came to Amherst in 1870 that they met."

• Sounds good; changed.

*It would be Dickinson's last poem published during her lifetime. Perhaps ---> "It was the last poem published during Dickinson's lifetime"?

• Changed.

*Few of the locals ... neighborhood children. This par may sit/flow better immediately after the local legend bit (1878–882). Then start a new par with When Higginson urged her to come to Boston ....

• Great idea; I've reordered them.

Later life and loves

• Wikilink month/day combos

*became an acquaintance of Dickinson's, and her last Master, in approximately 1872 or 1873 Perhaps ---> " and, in 1872 or 1873, became an acquaintance of Dickinson's, and her last Master".

• Changed.

*It is generally accepted that the friendship between Lord and Dickinson turned into a late-life romance after his wife's death in 1877, although the nature of their relationship is uncertain because most of their letters were destroyed. Bit long? Perhaps ---> "After the death of Lord's wife in 1877, his friendship with Dickinson probably became a late-life romance though, as their letters are now lost, this is surmise"?

• I like pointing out specifically that the letters were destroyed, but other than that I've changed the sentence.

You're right to point this out.--ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

• "Being ill for sometime" and "After being critically ill for several years" in successive sentences. Perhaps combine both illnesses and deaths into one statement, they were only two years apart?

• I'm not too sure about that; I don't want to lose the "My Philadelphia" quote in the middle.

Decline and death

*As she aged, Dickinson failed to edit or organize her poems for an unknown reason A bit convoluted. Perhaps ---> "For some reason, as she aged, Dickinson stopped editing and organizing her poems"?

•  Done

*Vinnie, who also never married, remained at the Homestead until her death in 1899" Perhaps ---> "her own death" for clarity?

• Good idea; changed.

• Terminally alienated ... painter. These sentences don't seem to flow logically and I found them very difficult to follow. As I understand it: Austin and Sue are married but separated; Mabel Todd is married and is much younger than Austin; Austin falls in love with Mabel Todd; Sue is sick with grief about Austin's love. Is there a happy ending or is it a complicated digression :) ??

• Er... the latter. :) I removed the superfluous sentence about Todd's hobbies, so hopefully that helps?

*Austin and Sue's third and youngest child—as well as Emily's favorite, Gilbert—died of typhoid fever. This could be clearer. Does it mean: "Austin and Sue's third and youngest child, Gilbert—Emily's favorite—died of typhoid fever"?

• Yes, that's what it means. Changed.

* read "No Coward Soul Is Mine", a poem by Emily Brontë that had been a favorite of Dickinson's Perhaps ---> "read one of Dickinson's favorite poems, Emily Brontë's 'No Coward Soul Is Mine'."

• Much better! Changed

Style and themes

• Dickinson's poems fall into three distinct periods It might help the reader if the three periods could be characterised by one or two words each, as shorthand.

• That's what I intended to do with the text in parentheses: poems written before 1861 (often conventional and sentimental in nature), those written between 1861 and 1865 (the most creative period, these poems are more vigorous and emotional), and those written after 1866. Do you mean more?

I'm veering towards bullet points, one per period. What's your feeling?

I'm willing to play around with it, as well as expand it if need be -- bullet points added, more info pending.

* Her line lengths vary from 4 syllables or 2 feet to often 8 syllables or 4 feet. Replace numerals with words?

•  Done

* Not keen on opening a par with "because of". "With" is shorter and serves a similar purpose?

• I'm not too keen on it either, really; changed.

• Her poetry has been used as texts for art songs by composers such as Aaron Copland, Nick Peros, John Adams, and Michael Tilson Thomas. The composers could be mentioned too in legacy.

• I did a switcheroo: I moved that sentence, along with a source that another user suggested above, to the "Legacy" section. Ta da!

• Written for the most part in common meter, the poems can also be set to songs that use the same alternating lines of iambic tetrameter and iambic trimeter; this is evident when comparing the meter of "Because I could not stop for Death" ( x / x / x / x / ) with the exact same meter of "Amazing Grace", "The Yellow Rose of Texas", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing" or the "Gilligan's Island" theme song. Very long and slightly convoluted sentence. Probably better as two. Is it saying that "Because I could not stop for Death" has the same meter as "Amazing Grace" et als.?

• How about: Written for the most part in common meter, the poems can also be set to songs that use the same alternating lines of iambic tetrameter and iambic trimeter. For example, the meter of "Because I could not stop for Death" ( x / x / x / x / ) has the same meter and is often set to the tune of songs such as "Amazing Grace", "The Yellow Rose of Texas", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing" or the "Gilligan's Island" theme song.

A lot clearer.--ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

*Although Dickinson did .... describe her poetry This is a very long and complicated sentence. Better broken into two: first, that she didn't identify genre herself; second, the genre used to characterise it.

• Now reads: Dickinson left no statement of her aesthetic intent in regards to her poetry. Nonetheless, her work is sometimes placed in literary genres including American Puritanism, English Romanticism, and American modernism.

• Although Dickinson did not leave a formal statement of what she was attempting to achieve aesthetically with her poetry ... Very roundabout? Perhaps ---> "Dickenson left no statement of her aesthetic intent"?

• See above.

• her work is sometimes placed in assorted literary genres. what does this mean? It's the "assorted" I'm struggling with.

• See above.

*romantic love and desire are themes that are utilized often in the poetry from her maturity Brevity. Perhaps ---> "themes of romantic love and desire are often found in her mature poems"?

• Much better; changed.

*Nature and philosophical themes, including numerous references to bees and flowers, are also remarked upon by critics who sometimes refer to her as somewhat of a Transcendentalist." Perhaps ---> Uncomfortable discordance between nature and philosophical: both adjectives or both nouns. This sentence is better in the active voice: "Critics remark on her nature and philosophy themes ... and sometimes see her as a Transcendentalist"?

• Agreed and changed.

Posthumous publication

*Vinnie kept her promise Remind us who Vinnie is.

• Got it.

*Alone in the Homestead, Vinnie became obsessed to see her sister's poetry Unusual to-infinitive there. Perhaps ---> "became obsessed with seeing her sister's"

• I agree; changed.

• turning first to Sue and then Mabel Loomis Todd for assistance. What was Sue's input?

• To be a stick in the mud, apparently. I've changed it to She turned first to Sue, her brother's wife, but after Sue neglected to act after several months, Vinnie went to Mabel Loomis Todd for assistance. Is this clearer?

Tell it like it is: "after Sue stalled for several months..."? --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, now it's: She turned first to Sue, her brother's wife, but after Sue stalled for several months, Vinnie went to Mabel Loomis Todd, her brother's mistress, for assistance.

• Todd claimed, however, that no changes "not absolutely inevitable" were made Uncomfortable double negative. Perhaps ---> "Todd claimed that only 'absolutely inevitable' changes were made".

• I'd agree, but that's how the source cites her, ugly wording and all. I could just remove the quote and paraphrase it?

Definitely. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

 Done

* heavily edited and selected by Todd Invert? "selected and heavily edited"?

• Got it.

Reception

• The wave of posthumous publication after her death Tautology. Either posthumous or after her death. Is wave the best word?

• "Surge"? The surge of posthumous publication gave Dickinson's poetry its first public exposure?

Fine. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

*poetic techniques and unusual style Several of the critics attack her rejection of traditional form. Perhaps "unusual non-traditional style"?

• Great, I like that. I've removed "poetic techniques", as well.

• Critical attention to Dickinson's poetry was meager from 1897 to the early 1920s. By the start of the 20th century, however, interest in her poetry. There's something contradictory in the date overlaps here. What is the role of "however"? Meagre criticism doesn't mean no criticism :)

• Good point. I wanted to stress the broader scope and the tendency towards modernism, which is why I stuck that "however" in there. I can see now that that was a mistake, so I've removed it.

• With the rise of modernist poetry When? Date? And which poets?

• Hm, I'll get back to you on that.

• Okay, I'm not sure if poets' names are applicable, but I've changed it to With the growing popularity of modernist poetry in the 1920s for now.

*to focus and clarify he major claims Typo "the major".

• Whoops, thanks.

• The second wave of feminism Again, wave?

• I like waves! And this really is called the second wave.

Tsunami then? (Only joking.) --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Ha, that rather describes it well, I think.

* In the first collection of critical essays on Dickinson from a female perspective which was published in 1983 Very long subordinate clause, the main clause comes as an anti-climax after it :) Recast?

• I agree, how about: In 1983's first collection of critical essays on Dickinson from a female perspective?

Missing word there, no? --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Did I miss something? If I am, I just can't see it...

* Biographers and theorists of the past ... separate Dickinson's roles as a woman and a poet. Very long sentence. recast as two: first, on general atmosphere; second on Whicher's view as a "For example"?

• Fixed.

• Adrienne Rich's "Vesuvius at Home: The Power of Emily Dickinson" (1976) states that Dickinson's identity as a woman poet brought her power, making her "neither eccentric nor quaint; she was determined to survive, to use her powers, to practice necessary economics." I have read this several times and cannot discern the thrust of the sentence. Earlier, the article seems to suggest that poetry gave purpose to Dickinson's rather empty life. Is this it?

• It's all speculation, I'm afraid. This is what Rich theorized about how poetry helped Dickinson, so I've made it more clear that it's only theory.

Legacy

• Mention the composers and the musical aspect?

• I'm not too sure about this; I'll have a look and see if I can find any scholarly sources.

*Mention the herborium

• Better yet: Moved down a couple sentences from the "Maturity" section so now there's a sentence in the Legacy which reads Dickinson's herbarium, which is now held in the Houghton Library at Harvard University, was published in 2006 as 'Emily Dickinson's Herbarium' by Harvard University Press

Indeed better yet :) --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

• Is she taught? What was her legacy outside America?

• This is a difficult section for me to write because I'm afraid of sourcing or lack thereof. I know that she is taught heavily in American Literature and Poetry classes, but I'm not sure how to cite that or where to find a source outside of an unreliable internet site, which I've really tried to stay away from this far.

Okay, so this is what I've done: I've added a rather brief and (regrettably unsourced) sentence that states: Dickinson is frequently taught in American literature and poetry classes in the United States from middle school to college. I know it's true, but where on earth can I find a source for that or better phrase it so that a source may not be needed? I also added the fact that a couple schools in the US are named after her, which I found out after doing numerous Google searches for "Emily Dickinson school" and "Emily Dickinson classes". Oi.

Overall, very promising piece. Despite the list, these things are easily fixed. Good luck, --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 00:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Ack. I feel like the wind has just gone out of my sails. Thank you so much for the detailed analysis and numerous suggestions; I'll look at them at length when I have a little more time to address each point individually. I will say for now, however, that the vagueness (especially as to the why Emily acted a certain way, or what afflicted her and her loved ones) about certain subjects will probably remain. There is plenty of waffling and speculation, but no one will ever know why Emily stuck like glue to the Homestead or what her mother suffered from for twenty years. It's difficult to write such a definitive account when almost nothing can be said for sure, and it sounds weak in places, I know, but if the sources don't know, neither do I. I wish I did! :) María (habla conmigo) 01:18, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't feel disheartened. This is a good piece and could easily become an outstanding one. On close examination I think you'll find the list less daunting than at first sight. Most of the issues are relatively minor style ones and I've tried to offer solutions, which - even if not adapted verbatim - will hopefully help you. Better too, I think, to deal with perceived weaknesses at this stage rather than at FAC itself. The amount of literary stuff there is steadily increasing and reviewers are becoming more and more blasé and critical, with the bar set ever higher. I understand the sources difficulties - the loss of all that correspondence hasn't helped - and it might be a solution to explain these explicitly in the article. The source difficulty is no reflection on you; you can only work with what you have! Anyhow, thanks again for much interesting information on a truly enigmatic character. If you need a hand with any of this, just ask, I'll gladly help. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 01:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

You've already helped so much, thank you! Phew. I think I ran through everything as of now, but the lead still needs work and I'm sure I missed a couple things here or there. I'm going to let it rest for a little bit and then look over it in full again. María (habla conmigo) 16:59, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Good stuff! I'll do detailed comments when it's all done so we look at all in context. Suit you?--ROGER DAVIES ^talk 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Suits me very well, thanks! :) I'll keep responding here as I work. María (habla conmigo) 15:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Roger Davies (2nd pass)

is at Talk:Emily Dickinson. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 02:26, 23 January 2008 (UTC)