Wikipedia:Peer review/François St-Laurent/archive1

François St-Laurent

I've listed this article for peer review because... I've been the main curator of this page since I created it under six years ago. I know it needs work (not going to lie). Do I know how to make a Wikipedia page look better? Not really. Should I know what needs to be improved? Of course. I'm looking at Notable games as an area that needs improving, but I don't know how to do it without condensing the entire thing into mush. Any critiques help - just not of the "delete it" kind.

Thanks, Mandoli (talk) 03:31, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Comments by Kaiser matias

I'll take a look over the next day or two, and if I don't follow up please message me, I have a bad habit of that. My first thought though is there are quite a few notable games listed, and without having gone through it in detail are they all sufficiently notable? That may be the first thing to consider. Kaiser matias (talk) 21:57, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Further comments:

• The lead could be reorganized. It should be a summary of the article, which this doesn't quite do at the moment.

• Is there anything else that can be added about the early life of St-Laurent? Even adding things like his birthdate and stuff like that, as I don't see them anywhere else (aside from the infobox).

• "...working 30 regular-season games and seven playoff games as a linesman." Try to use one system for numbers: either all numerals (30 and 7), or all spelt out (thirty and seven).

• For season ranges, use an endash ("–"). So instead of "2009-10" it would be "2009–10".

• Didn't realise St-Laurent was part of the Shane Doan controversy. Did St-Laurent, or the officials' union, ever give a statement on that?

• As noted above, the idea of notable games should be clarified. Looking through them I see why they are added, but am interested in hearing your thoughts on them, too.

• I also want to commend you on writing an article like this. Officials are obviously difficult to find sources on, and unless they are someone like Fraser or Scapinello have little to no commentary on them. So getting what you have here is good. In terms of expanding it, something like a season-by-season summary of games officiated would be good to have (just noting how many St-Laurent was involved in through prose would be good); I know that was published yearly in the NHL Record Book, but as that is all online now I'm not sure where that would be found, though it must exist somewhere. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:44, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Return comments: Looking through what I've seen and sourced, little is publicly known about his off-ice life. I'm trying to find games prior to him joining the junior league and American Hockey League, but I am stuck on where to search on that. Not a lot is found. As for his involvement in hockey, pre-NHL, it's in his biography on the Officials' Association website. Even looking for any information on that is bringing up nothing but what I've already seen. For example: In his bio, it says he was named Hockey Quebec's "Top Prospect" in 1997; nothing is coming up. I do know that he has a half-brother who plays hockey, and I had something mentioned a while ago, but I took it out as I thought it was frivolous. I would love to add more about his family, but I'd probably be pushing it.

I don't believe I've seen any sources saying that the NHLOA said anything about Doan's "comments" (I use that term loosely, because he denied he was the player who said it).

Not everything is really a "notable" game, as far as significance in hockey history goes. I mean, I know there are a few of them I could take out because they just seem like I'm trying to find things to add to the page. I want to keep games like when he tossed Paul Maurice out. That was newsworthy. Or when Ray Emery "fought" Braden Holtby. The media, even Don Cherry five days or so later, talked about it. But I can't really say that some of these games should continue to stay on the page. I know injuries shouldn't be "notable". But should something like outdoor games be fine, or should I move them to what should be the meat and bones of this page?

I've always wanted to do a table on career games, and edit that accordingly. I know the AHL's missing key information from some of their game summaries from the mid-2000s. I don't think that any of this information is related to St-Laurent's totals, however. I'm just not sure how to make a chart without using strictly tables. Going to look that up as soon as possible. Not all of the record books are available in PDF form. I have done my own research, but I don't know if that's something I can use - even if all of the summaries (or most of them) are available online.

I agree with the endashes and either going with either numerals or numerals typed out. Mandoli (talk) 01:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. I didn't think there would be much on his off-ice life, so you can only work with what you have. Likewise about the Doan incident, but figured I'd ask.

As for notable games, I do see the logic, and would think that so long as the officiating was brought up in the media, with St-Laurent specifically mentioned, would be a good standard for what is "notable", but I'm open to further refining.

And good luck on working out a table for games officiated; you may be the first one to do that for a hockey official, so it would be neat to have so we can use it for other articles as well. Kaiser matias (talk) 16:40, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Fixed up a good chunk of the numerals and spelled them out (minus the introduction part and anything that's a year). Also added endashes. I'm hoping I get a few more reviews on the page, because I'd like to know what others think about this. Mandoli (talk) 23:55, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Great, looks good. Hopefully some others can contribute too then. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:48, 28 December 2020 (UTC)