Wikipedia:Peer review/Griffith Rutherford/archive1

Griffith Rutherford

This peer review discussion has been closed.
This article just reached GA, and I want to see how it can be improved so it may achieve higher levels of quality, such as A class or even FA.

Thanks, Wikipedian1234 (talk) 02:32, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Laser brain

I'm not too familiar with the A-class criteria at various WikiProjects, so I tried to gear my comments toward the goal of eventually achieving FA status.

Sources

• There look to be several major sources you haven't explored yet. One of the big steps up toward FA class will be additional library research to get this comprehensive. I did a basic library search and found lots of great resources. For example, I found a great article from the journal Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, and one terrific dissertation is Politics of the personal in the old North state: Griffith Rutherford in revolutionary North Carolina by James MacDonald, ISBN 9780542564598.

Prose - This definitely will need a good copyedit after additional text is added after researching as above. Some example problems follow:

• "continued his militaristic service towards the British Empire until the start of the revolution in 1775" Unsure of the meaning here. Does this mean he was serving the British Empire or involved in military action "towards" the British Empire? Done
• "His career after this was mostly spent" Avoid the ambiguous "this" in writing. Always specify (ie this what?). Done
• "where he was wounded and taken prisoner by the British. He was later exchanged in 1781" Do you mean when? Done
• "Following the War, Rutherford continued to serve as a senator in North Carolina's state senate, which he had undertaken in 1779, until 1786." This contains a misplaced modifying phrase: "which he had undertaken in 1779" doesn't appear to modify anything that is present in the sentence. Done
• "Griffith Rutherford was born approximately in 1721" Just awkward—usually the "approximately" and "in" are reversed. Done
• "He is listed as being a member of the North Carolina General Assembly" Is "being" needed? Done
• "Rutherford moved his men to the Catawba and crossed it at Tuckesege Ford" Is that supposed to have the same spelling as "Tuckasegee River" earlier? Done
• "It was decided" and "It was resolved": not great constructions, especially following one another. Better to re-word in active voice. Done
• "arrived at the Loyalist's position" Assuming there was more than one, should be "Loyalists'"? Done
• "The Patriots took the Loyalist by surprise." One Loyalist? Done

I hope my comments were helpful. --Andy Walsh (talk) 15:13, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I've taken care of those grammatical errors as a start. Will look into those sources. Speaking of which, which volume and issue of the Virginia Magazine of History and Biography did you find that article in?-(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 17:28, 28 October 2010 (UTC))

Sure, it's Vol 17, No. 1, from Jan 1909 (!). It supports things you already have in the article (such as the 36 Indian towns destroyed) and now that I'm reading it, I'm not sure there's anything new you could take from it. However, it might be good for just presenting more variety of sourcing. I have the PDF—if you shoot me an email I can send it to you. On the dissertation, it now looks highly doubtful that you could obtain it, unless you get it via inter-library loan from the library here in AZ where it resides. So, maybe my comment on sources isn't all that helpful after all. --Andy Walsh (talk) 18:15, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good. I sent you an email through Wikipedia. Thanks-(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 21:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC))

I looked through the paper, and I couldn't find anything on Griffith Rutherford. It seems to be discussing a series of transactions, papers, and events from the 17th century. Wrong paper, perhaps? Thanks-(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 00:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC))

I sent the wrong page range somehow—sent a new version. --Andy Walsh (talk) 04:34, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I've read most of McDonald's piece on Griffith Rutherford and I've inserted several new facts on Rutherford's campaign in Wilmington. This source will prove extremely useful in beefing up the "Later Life" section. I'm gonna read the Virginia paper later on this week. Thanks again for the sources-(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 03:55, 1 November 2010 (UTC))

I've incorporated most of the new facts from the source material into the article. Is there anything else that needs doing? Thanks-(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 15:06, 6 November 2010 (UTC))

I would get a good copyeditor to go through it—you might find an interested party from the MilHist project. Find an experienced FA writer and they can help check for little things that might trip you up. It's not to say the writing is bad, but almost anyone can benefit from a close look by a second pair of eyes. --Andy Walsh (talk) 17:14, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Magicpiano

Sources:

• This source (also by Wakelyn) gives the name of Rutherford's mother. Done
• Older sources that are fully viewable online should have links to such in google books or archive.org Done
• Book references should list OCLC numbers if they don't have ISBNs (these are findable via worldcat.org). All books should list: year, publisher, and location of publisher. Done
• An ACR or FAC discussion may probe you on the use of old sources; you should be prepared to justify your reliance on them. (For example, there are probably more modern descriptions of the action at Ramsour's Mill than Lossing; you need to show that you've at least looked at them.)

Should I just insert the OCLC number into the isbn section?-(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 04:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC))

{{cite book}} has an oclc parameter. There is also {{OCLC}}. Magic♪piano 15:47, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

More comments to come... Magic♪piano 03:46, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Prose: As Laser_brain says, the article's prose is not up to FA standards, and one or more copyeditors should be asked to look at it. A few observations:

• "James Grant's campaign" - "campaign" link is a bit of an Easter Egg; please add a few more words to elaborate. Done
• You also have space to expand the War of the Regulation period to its own paragraph, since there are plenty of people who don't know what it is, or who it was between.
• "under the title of Colonel" - I would call colonel a rank, not a title; per WP:MOSCAPS, ranks are not capitalized unless identifying a specific individual (e.g. "Colonel Rutherford", but "Rutherford's rank was colonel"). Done
• "who had sided with the British" ->"who were siding" or "who had chosen to side" Done
• "Indian's cattle" -> "Indians' cattle" Done
• There is a jarring cut between the end of Cherokee and Ramsour's Mill. His troops are disbanded, then he has 500. What happened in between? Why was he encamped at Charlotte? (If the militia was called out because of the British arrival in South Carolina, you should say this.) Done
• I would add more about his unit's performance at Camden, since its behavior (especially vis a vis other militia units) is noteworthy. If there are any contemporary quotes about this (you'll have search detailed battle accounts), try to include one or two.
• Ditto getting quotes for his 1781 campaigning, since it is implied there are quotes from Greene. (That sentence is also particularly awkward, and should be rewritten anyway.) If there is a detail of what he did with one of these Loyalist units (e.g. Raft Swamp), it might do to include an elaboration of one of them to illustrate the tactics being used.
• "end it was a success [26]" - missing period Done
• "may disapprove?".[27]"- perhaps you should use this one, it's extraneous Done
• I have no sense of how wealthy Rutherford was compared to other NC residents, or whether his land holdings were large. Was the Rowan County land the only land he is known to have owned? Did he own slaves?
• He married Elizabeth Graham; were the Grahams important beyond being neighbors (I'm not from the South, but the name seems to pop up in political contexts, and there a number of NC politicians listed in Graham (surname).)
• The last sentence (legacy naming) needs a rewrite.

Do any NC or TN state or university archives have digital collections that might have relevant portraiture? (I know, long shot.) --Magic♪piano 21:01, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, there is a significant amount of information to be added about the time between the Cherokee campaign and Ramsour's Mill. Once I insert that into the article, I will appoint a copyeditor to scour the article. Thanks for the suggestions-(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 01:21, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

Comments from Kevin Myers

• Don't confuse the militia with the Continental Army. Rutherford was not in the Continental Army, as the infobox and lede wrongly claim. Done —Kevin Myers 12:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Umm, not done. There are two more in the infobox. Magic♪piano 21:01, 7 November 2010 (UTC)