Wikipedia:Peer review/Horace Greeley/archive1

Horace Greeley

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because… I intend to take it to FAC and would be grateful for feedback.

Thanks, Wehwalt (talk) 23:21, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Brianboulton comments

My first batch. It was disconcerting to discover that the only association I had with the name of Greeley – his supposed "Go West, young man!" quote – is apparently dubious, especially as the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations includes it without any caveat. I like the sound of this man, and look forward to learning more.

I have a source that directly says that the ODQ is wrong. It cites a researcher who checked the 1850 Greeley book, Hints Toward Reform, the stated source per the ODQ and found no trace of it, or in any Greeley writing. And even the Indiana editor, John Soule, who supposedly wrote it in 1851, there's no trace of it in his paper that year and the attribution to Soule doesn't start appearing until 1890. "NEVER MIND",

Author(s): Sandra Beasley Source: The American Scholar, Vol. 75, No. 1 (Winter 2006), p. 16, JSTOR 41222524

• Early life

• No issues

• First efforts at publishing

• Awkward "of diet of" – suggest "run on the dieting principle of..."
• "abstaining from the use of tobacco and opium". The linking of tobacco and opium is a little glib, implying that opium usage was as common as smoking tobacco and that abstaining from it was a notable denial. Maybe opium usage was more widespread then, possibly in the form of laudanum, but it might be advisable to expand this a little.

• Changed opium to "intoxicants".

• "Greeley was following Graham's principles, and to the end of his life rarely ate meat." As phrased, this sentence sits awkwardly in the paragraph, and I suggest "Greeley was a firm believer in Graham's principles, and to the end of his life rarely ate meat."

• I don't know that he kept up the principles to the end of his life. The source isn't clear on that. I think your phrasing is a little too definite, so I've taken another go at it.

• "In his journal, he urged..." → "In his journal, Greeley urged..."
• "...and was helped with elect the Whig candidate" – something slightly awry here

• Tribune, first years

• "As technology advanced, it was cheaper and easier to publish a newspaper" → "As technology advanced, it became cheaper and easier to publish a newspaper"
• "...died after a month in office, replaced by Vice President Tyler." Replace the comma with "and been", for correct syntax
• "who would a decade later found" – "who a decade later founded"?
• "To place the newspaper on a sound financial footing..." – as the last paper mentioned is the NYT, perhaps "To place the Tribune..." Also, the phrasing "sound footing" occurs at the beginning and of the sentence.
• "One factor in establishing the paper nationally was the Weekly Tribune, created in September, 1841 when the Log Cabin and The New-Yorker were merged, which was sent to many across the United States by subscription, and was especially popular in the Midwest." Too long and complex, especially with consecutive "when" and "which" subclauses. Suggest subdivide.
• "...the site of the one in Pennsylvania was after his death named Greeley." I learn from the link that it was the town built on the site, rather thn the site itself, that was named for Greeley. Is it worth the the settlement that originally occupied the site wa scalled "The Sylvania Association"?

I don't think it would add anything. That's not a very distinctive name. I've spelled it out a bit more clearly.

• Congressman

• "Greeley pledged support for Irish efforts towards independence" – needs clarifying. As written, it sounds like support for Irish indepencence from America. And was he really in a position to "pledge" (a solemn promise) anything? It would be more appropriate to say that Greeley "proclaimed his support for Irish independence form Great Britain", or similar wording.
• "Greeley's election..."? Appointment or selection, surely?
• "taking note of what congressmen were missing votes" → "which congressmen"
• The leading "But" (third line) should be removed. And perhaps say "travel allowance" rather than "mileage allowance" which has a rather modern connotation.

• I don't see the issue with the but. It seems to bridge Greeley's transition from unpopular new boy to utter pariah rather well.

• "to ban alcohol from the ships" – all ships, or just naval vessels?

More to follow. I will dip in when I can, but might be intermittent over the next few days. Brianboulton (talk) 19:11, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Quite understandable. Have a holly jolly and all that. Thanks for the review. I'm glad you think well of Greeley. I wonder how he would have done in the television era?--Wehwalt (talk) 11:57, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Here's more:

Influence

(Check a few edits I've made in this section)

• Second paragraph: I think a full stop is missing after "Mexican-American War"
• There are six "Greeleys" in this paragraph. At least a couple could be pronouns
• "Greeley printed an editorial disclaiming the paper's identity as Whig, becoming nonpartisan." Needs some rephrasing – syntactically wrong as it stands. Perhaps: "Greeley printed an editorial disclaiming the paper's identity as Whig and declaring it to be nonpartisan".
• "Greeley was part of efforts..." → "Greeley supported efforts..."

That implies "outside", and he was an insider here. I'll play with it.

• "In 1859, Greeley traveled across the continent to see it, to write about it for the Tribune and..." – from this wording it is not immediately obvious what is meant by "it". A less cryptic wordung might be: " In 1859, Greeley traveled across the American continent, to see it for himself, to write about it for the Tribune and..."
• "a two-hour interview of" → "a two-hour interview with". Also. remove the redundant "ever" in the same sentence.

1860 campaign

• "Greeley" repeated in opening phrases
• I'd rather see "Abraham Lincoln" than "former congressman Lincoln". Non-americans may wonder if thet are one and the same.
• "In Chicago..." – I'd bring this forward to associate it more directly with the convention, e.g.: "Greeley attended the convention in Chicago as a substitute..." etc
• "deemed his cause hopeless and that Seward would be nominated" – seems to need a second verb, e.g. "assumed", between "and" and "that"
• "In conversations with other delegates, he predicted that Seward could not carry crucial battleground states such as Pennsylvania." Can you clarify whether this prediction related to the coming presidential election, rather than to the convention?
• What are Doris Kearns Goodwin's credentials that give weight to her opinion?
• "He launched a campaign against corruption in the legislature..." – presumably the New York state legislature? Clarify.
• Final para: "elect" and "select" both used in connection with the Senate vacancy

Civil War

• "Similar editorials appeared through January 1861, when Tribune editorials began to take a hard line on the South..." I think "when" needs to be "after which", or "at which point", to clarify when the editorials changed tack.
• A small point, but the mention of the farm in the first para of the "Prayer of Twenty Millions" subsection is the first mention of this property. Perhaps its acquisition should be mentioned earlier, or a least include a brief explanation here.
• "By March, all Lincoln had spoken favorably of..." Somewhat clumsy phrasing; suggest "By March, all Lincoln had advocated..."
• "should not be aloud to evade it" (they could evade silently, then?)
• "This support made them targets": Need to clarify "them". The sentence needs redrafting anyway – it has two ands in it.
• It's not clear who was attacking Greeley and the paper. Anti-conscription mobs, or rich kids objecting to his attack on their evasion techniques?

Another attack before the year's end ought to see the job through. Brianboulton (talk) 23:20, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I've got those, though using my own wording in several cases. Thank you for your help.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:16, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Final comments

Reconstruction

• "Davis" needs to be identified at first mention
• "Once Davis had been..." – had been what?
• There's quite a bit of repetitious prose in the first two lines of the second paragraph, where Davis is mentioned by name four times, Gteeley three and release/released three times. A little polishing would help.
• "venomously attacking Johnson" sounds like editorial opinion

Grant administration

• Except for the final sentence, nothing in this section has any relevance to the Grant administration. I can't offhand come up with an alternate, but the present section title is misleading.

Grant years, then.

• "In 1868, Whitelaw Reid joined the staff as managing editor" – you should mention the Tribune in this context, as it has not been the main focus for a while.
• "Also on the Tribune's staff in the late 1860s was Mark Twain" – recommend flip this to " Mark Twain was also on the Tribune's staff in the late 1860s"
• Link "utopia"?

I think it's a common enough word it doesn't need it

• (Another Meeker arrives!)

No relation, unless Ezra disapproved and did not mention it.

Presidential candidacy

• "The Liberal Republican national convention met in Cincinnati in May 1868." This can't be right - the party was apparently formed in September 1871. And grant wasn't even in the White House in May 1868

Oops. 1872. Wrong election.

• "He received 2,834,125 votes to 3,597,132 for Grant, who elected 286 electors to 66 chosen for Greeley." Needs rephrasing – I know what you mean, but Grant did not "elect" 286 electors.

Final month and death

• "Final weeks would be more accurate – he didn't last a month after the election
• I'm not convinced that "underway" as a single word is acceptable good quality prose either in BritEng or AmEng, although it is used journalistically. Certainly neither the OED nor the OD of E endorses it.
• "He would have received 66 electoral votes; they were scattered among four others, principally Brown" can be shortened to "His 66 electoral votes were scattered among four others, principally Brown"
• In my display there is an unsightly white space before the Appraisal section, which you have dropped below the level of the monument image, presumably to avoid text squeezing between images. This problem would be overcome by dropping the commemmorative stamp image by one paragraph (I've tried it and it works). This would also have the advantage of trailing the monument image into the Appraisal section, where I believe it more properly belongs.

Appraisal

• "Greeley's effectiveness as a reformer was undermined by his habits:" semicolon not colon required. Also, since the word "habits" occurs in the quotation later in the line, perhaps use an alternative word/phrase, e.g. style, personal quirks, idiocyncracies etc.

That concludes my comments. An excellent account of a most engaging character – it is, alas, easy to understand why he couldn't get elected to anything. He needed a Chotiner to take him in hand (see, I do remember things). Given the opportunity, he might have been a memorable reforming president, and in view of the generally mediocre calibre of those who filled that office between Lincoln and McKinley, he could have been a standout. Do give me a nudge when this comes to FAC. Brianboulton (talk) 17:47, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you indeed for your review and your kind words. Yes, a Chotiner would have been of help to him, or anyone along those lines. I wonder how he would have done on TV?--Wehwalt (talk) 00:54, 1 January 2015 (UTC)