Wikipedia:Peer review/Piano music of Gabriel Fauré/archive1

Piano music of Gabriel Fauré

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I have just created this page, and I'd be grateful for your candidest comments on what to do with it. It was a devil of a slog compiling it, and it has ended up longer than I foresaw. But should it be chopped up into independent articles? I'm not attracted by the idea (the nocturnes and the barcarolles might make decent stand-alone articles but would the rest?) but I'd be glad to know what other editors think. And any other comments, of course, will be welcome, on fact, form, prose and anything else. – Tim riley (talk) 18:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Brianboulton comments: Basically what we have here is a high-quality list, but with perhaps rather more prose than is normal in a WP list. I wouldn't recommend the WP:FL route, though; if it's not a pop discography or sports-related, it probably won't get reviewed there. I think that there is sufficient prose for this to be considered like any other article; that doesn't mean that, if you wish, you can't develop in-depth articles on, say, the nocturnes or the barcarolles. But this has a value of its own, as a neat summary of Fauré's piano oeuvre, and I found it very informative. Here are a few niggles, comments and suggestions:-

General comment: throughout, there is a tendency to overdo the direct quotations, even for unmemorable comments such as ""the scintillating worlds of Chopin and Saint-Saëns waltzes." Maybe use paraphrase a little more
- Good point. I was dimly aware of this and will revisit. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Maybe give Faure's dates?
- Good. Done. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Background

"...charm is a conspicuous feature of many of his early compositions". Opinion needing a citation.
- Done. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nocturnes

If we are quoting Phillipe Faure in English translation, then "reveries" does not need the diacritic.
- The accent is there in the source, and I feel obliged to keep it. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Re No. 1: The Sally Pinkas quote is out of kilter with its introduction. The word "including" needs to go. I would also paraphrase the latter part of the quotation.
- Redrawn. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Re No. 6: Close repeat of "passionate"
- Adjusted. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Re No. 7: I'm not fond of "while Fauré was staying in the UK"; we tend not to use the term "UK" about ourselves. Why not "staying in England"?
- Ah, well because he was actually staying in Wales, but the French (and indeed our own countrymen of 100 years ago) were wont to use Angleterre/England as synonymous with Great Britain or UK. As the piece is nicknamed the "English" I have sought to dodge the issue. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Re No. 11: Not clear if Noemi or Pierre was Faure's friend
- Done. Rather tricky. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Barcarolles

it would be useful to have somewhere a precise definition of the musical term "barcarolle"
- Good. Done. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No. 2: Likewise, the time signatures "6/8" and "9/8" may not be widely understood and could be usefully piped to time signature.
- Done. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No. 3: Nitpick: Four commas in te opening sentence is too many. Rather: "The third barcarolle is dedicated to Henriette Roger-Jourdain, wife of Fauré's friend, the painter Roger Jourdain. It opens..." etc
- Good. Better split. Now done. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No. 5: What is meant by a "self-contained" section?
- Typically the A-B-A sections of earlier works. I have redrawn. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No. 10: Maybe Mme Blum should be identified, e.g. as "wife of the future French Prime Minister"? (As I recall from A level history, Blum's terms in office were on the short and sour side, but at least he got there.) Note: I had the same thought earlier about Mme d'Indy, though of course he was never PM.
- I'll ponder this again. Mme Lalo was Edouard Lalo's daughter in law, Mme d'Indy was (I think) Vincent d'Indy's wife, and Mme Blum, as you say, was Leon's wife. I wondered whether to follow those three points up in the text, but concluded that they verged on the peripheral. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Impromptus

No. 2: Phillips specifies the dedication to Mlle Sacha de Rebina
- So he does. (You surely haven't got a copy of it?) Desirable to include the "Mlle" to make it clear that Sacha is a girl's name, you mean? Done. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, I just saw it in the online extract. Sachas are generally male (Distel, Guitry, Baron Cohen etc) but this was definitely a girlie. Brianboulton (talk) 00:46, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No. 5: "describes this piece as "a piece of..."
- Amended. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Valses-caprices

Copland has already been identified in the "Background" section
- Fixed. A legacy of my piecemeal constructional technique in this article. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other solo piano works

Romances sans paroles: "prentice" is somewhat archaic. If Copland used it, it should be in quotes. Otherwise I'd update it to "apprentice"
- Redrawn.Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ballade in F♯ major:
- Citation missing?
  - Added. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- "Debussy was less impressed..." - Than whom?
  - Than Proust. Ought I to repeat Proust's name here, do you think? Tim riley (talk)10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - No, reading it again I think it's clear enough. Brianboulton (talk) 00:46, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Mazurka in B♭ major: Maybe link mazurka in the text
- Done. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
8 Pièces brèves, Op 84:
- Check "insisted ... insisted"
  - Amended. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- (see below) is too inspecific. Where, below?
  - Attended to. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
9 Préludes, Op 103:
- Too many "ands" in the last sentence of the first para
  - I did that deliberately, but can't now remember why. Adjusted. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The Koechlin quote needs closing
  - Done. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For two pianos

The first paragraph of the "Dolly Suite" section lacks citations
- Added. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All in all, well-researched and impressive. Brianboulton (talk) 17:59, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for this very thorough review. The article is decidedly improved by the resulting changes. Tim riley (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]