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Pithole, Pennsylvania

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I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to get Pithole to FA. For some reason, I not satisfied the comprehensiveness, but don't think there is anything missing (it could just be me, though). Thanks, Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:05, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments: I think this looks pretty good. I will make some minor copyedits as I go through the article. I will especially try to make suggestions on things to add for comprehensiveness.

The dab finder finds one dab link

Changed the link to a Wiktionary link, which seems more useful in this situation. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 15:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The lead should be a summary so I would repeat or elaborate on the largest oil boomtown claim in the lead (which does not seem to be repeated in the article body)

I started doubting the "largest boomtown" claim and redid part of the intro. Does it need to be elaborated on or spelled out elsewhere in the article, now? I think the reader should be able to get the jist of it from reading the article. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:55, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Naming section - I think I would mention Pithole Creek here in terms of its name. I assume the creek was named for the borough, but I think it should be mentioned either way (presumably as something named for the ghost town, possibly as the source of the name)

Added. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Seneca are mentioned in the Naming section too - I think I would give the approximate year since it says These "pit-holes", which were found along Oil Creek and in Cornplanter Township, supposedly predate the Senecas who inhabited the area at the time.[6] I also think it would be good to at least mention the Seneca in the History section.

Added. Would it be better to specifically mention the "Seneca" or just go with the "Iroquois" (as it is my understanding that the Senecas were a part of the Iroquois)? Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 22:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would keep it as the Seneca - I think it is better to be more specific. The Seneca came down into western Pennsylvania, but not all the Iroquois did. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:15, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Problem sentence: Pithole is located almost 4 miles (6.4 km) off Pennsylvania Route 36 and about 2 miles (3.2 km) from Pennsylvania Route 227. Needs a ref - could use the PennDOT map here. I would also mention State Route 1006 as it is shown on the PennDOT map and on your map. Finally, I would add directions to the major highways, so something like Pithole is located on Pennsylvania State Route 1006, almost 4 miles (6.4 km) southwest of Pennsylvania Route 36 and about 2 miles (3.2 km) east of Pennsylvania Route 227.

Changed wording, added refs. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Second paragraph of Geography and climate needs a ref - presumably the source(s) used for the map would work here too

Added a ref. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:22, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

At the start of History I would add a new paragraph with a sentence about the Native American inhabitants, a sentence on the land being purchased from the Iroquois in the Treaty of Fort Stanwix (1784), and something with the dates of first settlement for the township, and incorporation of Venango County and Cornplanter Township. This PHMC source would be good for this last part

Added. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 22:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I left a message on your talk page about "Ghost Towns of Pennsylvania", which has seven or so pages on Pithole, with more details on the people and animals - mostly talks about teamsters and prostitutes and what it was like to live there. It is on Google Books here. I would add some details from that - hotel for 60 built in a day, what it was like to live in such hastily built and shoddily constructed buildings, how horses and mules suffered and were at a premium, the brothels and near slavery of the prostitutes in them. Perhaps a sentence on the claims of ghosts, maybe not.

Added more about the teamsters and about the prosititutes. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 22:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A stone altar was erected and consecrated by the Methodist Episcopal Church on August 27, 1959, the centennial of the Drake Well strike. needs a ref.

Added. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think I might add a sentence or two about the other nearby oil history sites in the Visitors center section (Oil Creek SP and Drake Well). Especially since the Drake Well Museum operates the Pithole Visitor Center - see this PHMC document here

Added it. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:55, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The more I think about it, I think there could be a sentence something like The PHMC operates the Pithole Visitor Center as part of the Drake Well Museum. In 2007–2008, the Drake Well museums had 33,827 visitors, and in 2006–2007 the operating budget was $940,650. (same ref as above)

Would the visitation and budget numbers be accurate? I know Pithole is off the beaten path and, as such, usually recieves less visitors than Drake Well. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to make it clear that the budget and visitation numbers were for all the Drake Well museums (i.e. Drake Well, Pithole, and the other well listed), but agree it may be problematic - your call. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:01, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I also wonder about adding an image, even a fair use one, of Pithole itself in its prime (if such exist). I also wonder about cropping the stereoview to just one of the photos - it might be easier to see the detail in the article that way.

I know I've seen photos and I wonder if they would be considered free as they were first published in 1860s. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 15:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I added a new photo of Pithole. How's it look? Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 22:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I like it. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:36, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise it looks pretty good to me. I made a few copyedits - please revert if I made or introduced errors.

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog. I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I'll see what I can fix now, but the source for much of the history section is at the library, which is closed until after Memorial Day (interesting book on its own, by the way). Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 15:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A few more comments

Someone reviewing images may ask about the historic image of Pithole (newly added). Is there any indication that it was published before 1923? Even if there is not, I think it owuld be fine as a WP:FAIR USE image.

I've posted a note at WP:MCQ, no response so far. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think it can be sorted out at FAC if need be - as I said, if worse comes to worse I think it is justified under fair use. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:25, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am also not sure about the license on the image of the model of the town. My guess is that the model may be seen s a work of art (copyrighted). I am not sure if this owuld be the case or not, but again I think one or two fair use images would be OK. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:36, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto, however if it were British, there are exceptions for models of buildings in public places. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I read the Pennsylvania Ghost Towns book - it mentioned how large buildings were constructed in a single day, but proved drafty and cold in the winter (surpringly). It also mentions the "Mayor of Pithole" I think I would include something on how fast the buildings were erected and how poorly constructed they were. Since the book and the news article you just found both mention the "mayor", I think that might be worth a sentence too.

Added the bit about the hotel and some about Boomtown Day and the mayoral race. Not sure how to mention the mayor specifically (as it is not "official" position). In the Geobox maybe? Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think mentioning the mayoral race is enough. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:25, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Finally, is there any reason not to include the Pennsylvania Ghost Town book in the references somehow? It seems like a reliable source.

Added. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:36, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dincher comments

Lead

The word "located" has been a sticking point in some FACs that I have been involved in. I personally don't have a problem with it, but someone in the future might.

Reworded to the lead sentence to remove the "located". Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:55, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How many bars? This would be an interesting contrast with the churches.

I'm unable to find an exact number, however I have a source that mentions that "every other building was a bar". Should that be included? Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:22, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly. The number isn't important. The reader gets a good idea about the number of bars with your suggestion. Dincher (talk) 02:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Added it. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 22:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Naming

Drop 'exact' and just go with, The origin

Dropped. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Geology

Drop 'that was' and go with, Most of the oil produced...

Dropped. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

'The oil usually became trapped' - reads awkwardly.

I reworded it. Any better? Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:55, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. It is better. Dincher (talk) 03:11, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Link or create article for Venango Third? just a sugggestion

Geography and Climate

two more 'locateds' could go

Not sure how does could be reworded to avoid using "located". Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:37, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Were Duncan, Mason, Prather, Brown and Holmden streets named for town fathers? It would be nice to know.

I've dropped some the names into the History section, so it should be able to be inferred. Should it be expilictly stated (I'm not sure there is a source for that, though)? Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:37, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I picked up the inference. No need to be explicit about it. Dincher (talk) 19:19, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How about including a map of the streets?

There is a map that shows the city streets in the geobox. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 02:37, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

History

Suggest changing in only half a year to within half a year

Changed. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I see now that at least some of the streets were named for the big wigs.

Do we need at the thes in the first sentence of the last paragraph of the Boom subsection?

Dropped all but two. Does it read better? Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it does. Keep up the good work. Dincher (talk) 01:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Visitors Center

suggest changing from cellars to foundations

Changed. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 01:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I enjoyed reading this article. The history is very interesting. Dincher (talk) 23:06, 29 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]