Wikipedia:Peer review/Reptile (Mortal Kombat)/archive1

Reptile (Mortal Kombat)

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for February 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
Need to be hammered with whatever fixes and so forth to improve this article so when I nominate for FA the prose will be up to snuff. So hit me with whatever qualms you have about the article to fix the prose, and I'll fix it as soon as possible.

Thank you for your time and patience, Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:32, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Natural Cut: Things like Reptile's portrayal in the Mortal Kombat movie don't belong in a section called 'Cultural impact'. I'd just make the subsections into top-level sections and rename 'Promotion and reception' to something along the lines of 'Effect on the franchise'. With all due respect, he's no Jabba as far as popular culture relevance goes. :-) Other suggestions:

YouTube references = bad form.

Careful of switching between past and present tense, something I noticed in multiple sections. For instance, we go from 'players must win' to 'the next match would take place'.

First sentence of the 'In video games' section should say 'and end the second round' or 'or ending the second round'. Never been a video game person, but I think it's the first.

Does the second game establish Reptile's race or change his background in some way? I'd suggest 'reveals Reptile to be a member of a reptilian race'.

Why did the NBA request his removal (aside from the obvious silliness of Mortal Kombat characters in a basketball game)? Along the same lines, I have to laugh at the sentence about Reptile being a GI Joe action figure. Should probably explain it was a crossover, or whatever they were thinking.

I was going to change the sentence about Forceball and Acid Spit to say these were new abilities ('His new/unique abilities include...') but wasn't sure if the former was unique to Scorpion. Also, 'gnawing the flesh from their skulls' doesn't sound forceful enough but I'm not sure what word to use.

I'm personally biased against popular culture articles being featured (I'd take Napoleon - whose article I also peer reviewed recently - over him :-P) but I do wish you luck! Natural Cut (talk) 01:58, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

No offense but what the hell kind of peer review review is this? You're going in biased against it already because it's "pop culture" and then tell me how it can't possibly have cultural impact? Seriously, that's a horrible approach. On a side note, the youtube link is used to confirm that that is Ed Boon being interviewed in the accompanying transcript.

Really, this wasn't a peer review: it was you blasting the thing more on the ground that it was a Mortal Kombat character and not some major historical figure. Forgive me, but I research and write fictional character articles, and if I'm going to be told they're not going to get to FA because they're "pop culture", then that's some serious bull that needs to be analyzed pronto.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 12:55, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

That bit at the end was a lighthearted comment meant to be taken in jest. I certainly did not say the subject matter should disqualify it from being featured; if I thought that way, why would I take the time to give you feedback on how to improve the article and conclude by wishing you luck?

Similarly, I was trying to be funny when I suggested that Scorpion's impact on popular culture didn't compare to Jabba's (hence adding the smiley face). In no way was I trying to insult him. If you disagree with my suggestions, that's one thing, but to say "what the hell kind of a peer review is this?" when I took the time to give you feedback is just plain rude. Natural Cut (talk) 16:50, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Alright, my apologies then. It came across as insulting when that apparently wasn't the case. I tend to work on fictional character articles and do know many editors find them to be of little importance and some feel they have no place as FA's :\--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Tackling your points more directly:

• As I said the youtube link is just there to show that was Boon. It doesn't violate copyright so it should be fine there.
• I'll check the tenses.
• The second game did expand his character history. I'll fix that up to be more direct.
• The NBA thing was never fully explained to my knowledge. The NBA just opted not to have the characters in there.
• I'll work on the move descriptions (the comparison between the projectiles was actually between the forceball and the acid spit).

Anyway, thank you for your time.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:23, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Here are some suggestions for improvement. This reads well, but I worry there is not enough third party independent material about the character in the article.

• Looks like you have already seen the FA Cortana, about another video game character. Jabba the Hutt and Jason Vorhees are other FAs about characters that may be useful models.
• Per WP:MOS#Images, images should be set to thumb width to allow reader preferences to take over. For portrait format images, "upright" can be used to make the image narrower.
• I would try to make very sure that the article is written as clearly from an out of universe perspective - see WP:IN-U
• About 1/4 of the sources appear to just be the video games from Midway (spelled Mdway once). I would try to get more independent third-party sources and include more material on critical reception and less description of the character and games and plot. I think this could be a problem at WP:FAC
• I am not an expert on gaming sources, but make sure they meet WP:RS. Linking to potentially copyvio material is not allowed and will be a problem at FAC. How do you know the You Tube video was posted by the copyright holder?

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 05:53, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Levi - Looks pretty good, overall. Here's some observations:

Layout

• It's a relatively short article, but could the lead be expanded at all?

Prose

• Starting with Mortal Kombat 4, Reptile has been voiced by series sound engineer Dan Forden. - Consider replacing "Starting" with "Beginning."

• With Mortal Kombat 4, Reptile's appearance became more reptilian, now with his head mostly uncovered. - Consider changing to In Mortal Kombat 4, Reptile's appearance became more reptilian, with his head now mostly uncovered.

• Ed Boon described the changes to Reptile's design over the course of the two games as hinting at him "evolving into a bigger character"... - Consider changing to Ed Boon described the changes to Reptile's design over the course of the two games by hinting that he was "evolving into a bigger character"...

• and the look of his feet, hands, and armor components from Deadly Alliance. - You probably don't need "components" here, "armor" is understandable on its own.

• To fight Reptile in Mortal Kombat, players must win two consecutive rounds while fighting on the "Pit" stage without blocking or taking damage and ending the second round with a finishing move (called a "Fatality"). - Consider changing to To fight Reptile in Mortal Kombat, players must win two consecutive rounds while fighting on the "Pit" stage without blocking or taking damage, as well as ending the second round with a finishing move (called a "Fatality"). It's a longer sentence so a comma might make it more readable.

• while Craveonline listed the battle against him in Mortal Kombat as the fourth greatest event in video games. - Consider replacing "video games" with "video gaming" to make it more inclusive.

• UGO.com ranked him eleventh in their "Top 11 Mortal Kombat Characters" article, stating that his exclusivity as a hidden character in the original game made him an "arcade legend" and set the tone for secrets in future titles in the series, adding "Future games would feature even more hidden enemies and complicated ways of accessing them, but the first was still the best." - This sentence could be considered a run-on, can you break it up?

Grammar

• In the second paragraph in the "In video games" section, the tense changes from present to past just about every sentence. It could be properly expressed in either tense, but try to make it consistent.

• "Fatality" probably doesn't need to be considered a proper noun.

I like the prose style, all in all. Keep up the good work! — Levi van Tine ^(talk) 10:34, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments by Guyinblack25

The lead

• I agree with the above comment about the lead. It should be expanded with some key details from the article. Some development and reception content would good, like briefly mention his design evolution from humanoid to reptilian and positive reception from gaming websites.

Conception and history

• I would use Boon and Tobias's full names for the first time here. Yes, the lead already does that, but I've always tried writing the article as if it didn't have the lead. That's just me though.
• Some content could use some clarification for the video game layman.
  • I would use "graphics" instead "sprites", but still link to Sprite (computer graphics). A comma is needed before the citation also:
    "...for Scorpion and Sub-Zero's character spritesgraphics, ..."
  • The mention of "version 3.0" confused me a bit. I assumed it was the third build of the original game, but version 3.0 can imply MKIII. I would reword it.
  • This one shows up a few times. "Reptile's appearance" can mean either his visual appearance or him showing up in the game, but it's used as both in this section without any distinction.
  • I'm always wary of any gaming term that uses "-able". I'd suggest switching it out "playable" for something like "available for players to control", and unlockable for "accessible after completing specific requirements". More words, but I think it comes across as more professional.
  • The info about his armor and vest seems off to me, however, I may be alone on this. Maybe mention that the armor and vest is green first, then describe it. Not sure if this is better though.
  • I think stating that his first appearance was used with little variance in the first three games would help give more context to the reader. Especially with the mention of "three previous designs" later in the section.
  • Maybe add a cue to aid the reader:
    "In Mortal Kombat 4, Reptile's appearance (pictured left)..."
  • The mention of Onaga doesn't give much context for the layman, and sounds more in-universe. I would give something generalized, and follow it with some more details.
    "...and foreshadowing Onaga controlling his bodya plot device in Deception; a new character, Onaga, took control of Reptile's body."
  • I think mentioning the first designs were 2D might be helpful. Maybe add which appearance was his first 3D version too.
• Grammar tweaks
  • I think a semi-colon would be more appropriate:
    "Reptile's inclusion was intended asto be a marketing tool for the arcade game:; as extreme conditions..."
  • I think this flows better and is less wordy:
    "Due to his origin as a palette swap of Scorpion and Sub-Zero, hHis attire was similar to theirsScorpion and Sub-Zero's, a result of the palette swap technique."
  • I believe this should be past tense because it was an old design. Not sure though because the design still exists in the original games that are available in the present. A copy edit guru may need to be consulted.
    "His clothing consistsed of..."
  • Sounds like is missing; surely his feet consist of more than just three toes attached to ankles:
    "...whileand his feet were nowfeatured three-toed talonsed toes."
  • Reword and trim for redundancy:
    "Ed Boon described the changes to Reptile's design changes over the course..."
  • Trim redundancy. The fact that the sentence is continuing to describe his appearance implies "in addition":
    "In addition, bBlack strips of cloth..."
  • I think switching from "his" to "a" will give a more out-of-universe style to the sentence:
    "...from Deception serving as hisa secondary outfit."

In video games

• My first instinct is to start this section with a intro/basic statement: "Reptile first appeared in the 1992 game Mortal Kombat as a hidden boss". But that seems to have already been done over the course of the previous section. I'll leave it up to you.
• I would maybe rearrange the two sentences about the unlocking requirements. You have about three ideas conveyed in the first sentence, which can be a lot to take in. The second sentence technically has two ideas, but they are so related you could almost count them as one. Maybe try this:
  "...players must win two consecutive rounds while fighting on the "Pit" stage without blocking or taking damage from the opponent's attacks. andThey must also ending the second round with a finishing move (called a "Fatality"). In addition, and a silhouette must float across the moon in the background, an event which occurs every eighth cycle of the game's stages."
  • Should probably clarify the part about blocking and damage for the less gaming inclined. Plus, splitting the sentences give you some room for the extra detail.
  • It's been a long while since I played this game, but does the silhouette have to occur during the second round? That is not apparent in the paragraph and should probably be clarified as well. Generally, such trivial details are not needed, but sometimes you need a few extra to avoid confusing the reader.
• Tweak for out-of-universe:
  "...a playable character and is portrayed as a member of a reptilian race called Raptors..."
• This sentence is probably fine, but this way just sounds better to me. Your choice:
  "Promised the revival of his people in turn for his loyalty, ReptileHe serves Kahn as Shang Tsung's bodyguard in exchange for the promise of his people's revival."
• Clarify- "'Separated from Onaga as a result..." as a result of what? Being defeated is implied, but the wording does not make that certain? If that is the case I'd rewrite to a more active/stronger tone. "Reptile's defeat separated him from Onaga..."
• Tweak and trim for conciseness and redundancy:
  "During development,Shaolin Monks producer Shaun Himmerick noted that Reptile was included Reptilein the game because the character was one of Himmerick'his favorite in the series."
  • Rewording and shortening will strength the sentence's meaning.
  • The time frame isn't too important. The rewording will imply it was a development decision.
  • "In the game" is not needed here because the first sentence, "...appears in Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks,...", already established this.
  • Since there is only one developer mentioned in the sentence, a pronoun won't confuse the reader and will reduce the length.
• Maybe change the word "attack" to "moves" or "move set": "...his attacks were changed..."
• Maybe tack on "attack" to help clarify:
  • "Forceball" → "Forceball attack"
  • "Acid Spit" → "Acid Spit attack"
• Trim redundancy:
  "In addition, Reptile can slide towards..."
  • "In addition" is implied by the fact you are still discussing the topic.
• Maybe switch "vomiting" to "spitting" or "regurgitating". Vomiting generally implies sickness, which I don't believe is the case here.

Cultural impact

• The first sentence sounds a little off. I think "of" is missing but I'm not sure.
  "...in several of Malibu Comics' Mortal Kombat comic book series..."
  • An alternative would be "...in several Mortal Kombat comic book series released by Malibu Comics in 1995..."
  • It also comes across as a run-on, maybe use a semicolon between "in 1995" and "debuting in" instead of a comma.
• Repetitive use of "also"
  • "...and also appearing in..." in one sentence followed by "He also appears in..."
  • I'd get rid of the first one. The first sentence is a list of appearances so it doesn't need an "also" after "and".
• Switch "based off" → "based on"
• The wording sounds awkward to me. Maybe move the year:
  "In 1996, aA paperback novel written by C. Dean Anderson entitled Mortal Kombat: Reptile's World was released in 1996."
• This seems like excess detail that could be left off.
  "...until found by Liu Kang in Outworld."
  • Now that I think about it, I don't think the general reader would know about Outworld. Maybe give a brief description at its first instance earlier in the article.
• I would also explain that the lizard portions were CGI to better provide context of the last sentence about filming.
• An extra bit of context wouldn't hurt:
  "Actor Robin Shou (Liu Kang) and director Paul Anderson..."
• Can probably trim this:
  "Another action figure..."
• I think an introductory sentence to segue into the reception paragraph would help. Maybe something like "The character has been well received by critics."
• The sentence about UGO's comments is a run-on. Split it at "adding":
  "...future titles in the series, a. They further addinged 'Future games would..."
• I would paraphrase and summarize the quotes.

Sources

• Formatting- "p." should be used if a single page is the citation, and "pp." should be used for multiple pages. I think {{cite book}} supports "page" and "pages" parameters. So you can control the output by using one of those two.
• Is www.mortalkombatonline.com a Midway website? If not, it may be difficult to establish the identity of the poster and establish creditability.
• Ref 13 and 19 should have "GameInformer" in italics because it is a magazine.
• I would link Black Belt (magazine) in ref 32.

That's all I have time for right now. I'll try to get to the rest next week. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 22:03, 27 February 2009 (UTC))

Part two, I'll try to finish the rest this week. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 17:46, 4 March 2009 (UTC))

All done, nice job on the article. I never knew this much content existed on Reptile, and it was interesting to read about. Hope the suggestions help. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 22:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC))

Comments from Ealdgyth (talk · contribs)

• You said you wanted to know what to work on before taking to FAC, so I looked at the sourcing and referencing with that in mind. I reviewed the article's sources as I would at FAC. The sourcing looks good.

Hope this helps. Please note that I don't watchlist Peer Reviews I've done. If you have a question about something, you'll have to drop a note on my talk page to get my attention. (My watchlist is already WAY too long, adding peer reviews would make things much worse.) 02:12, 1 March 2009 (UTC)