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Wikipedia:Peer review/Selena albums discography/archive1

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Selena albums discography

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I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to take it to FLC in the near future

Thanks, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 01:09, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comments from Michael Jester

Resolved comments: General and first paragraph
General

Lead

First paragraph
  • The discography of American singer Selena consists of five studio albums, 17 compilation albums, five box sets, three remix albums, three live albums and two soundtrack albums. -> The discography of American <insert genre here> singer Selena consists of five studio albums, seventeen compilation albums, five box sets, three remix albums, three live albums and two soundtrack albums., per WP:NUMBERS
      Done Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 16:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In November 1990, Selena released her second studio album Ven conmigo, which became the first recording by a female Tejano vocalist to achieve a Spanish certification of gold status, representing shipments of 50,000 copies. -> In 1990, Selena released her second studio album, Ven conmigo, which peaked at number three on the Latin Regional Mexican Albums chart. The album became the first to be awarded with a Spanish certification by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) by a female Tejano vocalist, receiving a gold award in <insert year here> for shipments of 50,000 copies
      Done Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 16:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref two does not make that claim. Please look at references section below before continuing.
    Ref#2 [1] verifies that she was first Tejano vocalist, though other Tejano artists (males) before her did. According to all of these sources, her only albums to have outsold the guys were Entre a Mi Mundo, Selena Live! and Amor Prohibido. However, I can't seem to find a source to verify she was the first female. Should I remove "first female" then? Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 16:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yeah, if it doesn't say she was the first female, then don't add it. That can be considered original research.
  • Because of the success of Ven conmigo, CBS Records, a subsidiary of Sony Music Entertainment, were allowed to distribute Personal Best, a compilation album that had a mixture of songs from two LP records Selena recorded in the 1980s -> Because of the success of Ven conmigo, CBS Records, a subsidiary of Sony Music Entertainment, was allowed to distribute Personal Best (1991), a compilation album containing a mixture of songs from two LP records Selena recorded in the 1980s.
      Done
  • [...] because of her extensive touring and relationship woes with Chris Pérez, a guitarist who recently joined the band.[4]
    • This is a pretty big claim; putting her album on halt. However, the source is (what I think) a TV episode or a movie. Not sure how I can verify it, and for something this big in her career, it should be in other sources. Check it out.
      Can't verify online. Should I remove? Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 16:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant, Selena and Pérez eloped and her father felt ashamed of his behavior and accepted the relationship. -> Reluctant, Selena and Pérez eloped, and her father felt ashamed of his behavior and accepted the relationship.
      Done Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 16:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • It went on to be certified 6x platinum (Latin type) by the Recording Industry Association of America for shipments of 600,000 copies, while also giving Entre a mi mundo a gold (standard) certification, representing shipments of 500,000 copies. -> It went on to be certified six-times-platinum, Latin type, by the RIAA, for shipments of 600,000 copies.
      Done Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 16:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments: Second paragraph
Second paragraph
  • OK, so I decided this. Lets worry about the lead, the content, and the verification first. Then we can worry about what the references look like afterwards. For an article of this size, I feel that's the best. With that being said, here's more lead. Always remember though, if you disagree with something I say, don't be afraid to say it. I'm not perfect.
    • It sold that many according to whom? Nielsen SoundScan? If you don't know, that's fine, but more importantly, why is the sales figures for Entre a mi mundo differ in the lead (385,000) than from the table (1,000,000).
    Not sure to whom. Because that's how many copies it sold in its first year, whereas, the 1,000,000 copies is the overall sales by 1995. I added that it the article. Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 23:53, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • I looked at the two references (the from the lead, and the one from the table)). The table one is subscription, so I can't read it. I lead one however, gives a different result of 300,000! And, the article doesn't say anything about Entre being the most sold by a female Tejano artist. Something is wrong with this sentence, verificatory.
Resolved comments: Second paragraph pt. 2
:That being said: Entre a mi mundo sold 200,000 copies in Mexico and sold 385,000 copies in the United States, which became the first recording by a female Tejano vocalist to sell that many.[7] -> Entre a mi mundo sold <insert number of copies here in the US, according to <insert whomever here, if applicable>, which was the most by a female Tejano vocalist.[7]
  • Next sentence: "Many music critics believed Entre a mi mundo was the "breakthrough album" for Selena,[9][10] who at the time was now

competing with male vocalist which was an unprecedented achievement for a female vocalist, who were not viewed as "heavy weights" and were frowned upon by male vocalist in the Tejano market.[11]"

    • Once again, I think this sentence should go. Well, actually everything after the "'breakthrough album' for Selena" part. It irrelevant to her albums; it's talking about herself and her career. I'd merge the "The album helped Selena to be accepted in Mexico, where Mexican Americans were not accepted among the citizens because they were American people of Mexican descent.[6]" and "Many music critics believed Entre a mi mundo was the "breakthrough album" for Selena,[9][10]" into The album—deemed Selena's "breakthrough album" by music critics[9][10]—helped her to be accepted in Mexico, where Mexican Americans were not accepted among the citizen because they were American people of Mexican descent.[6]"
  • Now is where I'd start a new paragraph.
  • On February 7, 1993, Selena held a free, live concert at the Memorial Coliseum, which attracted 3,000 fans.[12]
    • Nothing wrong here, just add the comma after "free". "Free" and "live" are two adjectives so commas are needed.
  • "The concert was recorded and was released three months later as Live!."
    • Nothing wrong here.
  • "The album won "Best Mexican/American Album" at the 36th Grammy Awards, which became the first Tejano album to win a Grammy Award.[13]"
    • You're pushing it with the awards stuff. Since it's the first Tejano Grammy winner, I'd say keep it. However, people at FLC might think differently. Keep that in mind.
    • Ref claims the album—which she calls Selena Live!—was just awarded a Grammy. Nothing says (from the paragraph I read) says it was the first.
      Found a new source and added it. Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 23:53, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After her Grammy win, Selena released Mis Mejores Canciones - 17 Super Exitos, it went on to be certified 6x platinum (Latin type), which represented shipments of 600,000 copies, and became the first Tejano compilation album to be certified multi-platinum.[11]"
    • After her Grammy win, Selena released Mis Mejores Canciones - 17 Super Exitos (1993). It did not impact on a major chart; however, it was certified six-time-platinum, Latin type, by the RIAA, making it the first Tejano compilation album to reach multi-platinum status.[11]
    • For verification purposes, you really need to add the quote from the movie(?) saying it was. If you need help, just ask.
  • "Amor prohibido debuted at number one on the Latin Regional Mexican Albums chart and the Top Latin Albums chart simultaneously."
    • You're missing the fact that it charted on the Billboard 200—the most important album chart in the US.
    • Example text
Resolved comments: Third paragraph
:Third paragraph
  • Alright, back on track. Lets get this out of the way.
  • "12 super exitos was released in late 1994 and was certified gold (standard)." -> "...certified gold, standard type, by the RIAA."
    • Say something about the album charting: e.g. "The album peaked at number two on Latin Regional Mexican Albums as well as Top Latin Albums and appeared on the Billboard 200."
  • "Because of the success of Amor prohibido and of her Amor prohibido Tour, which had beat audience records raging from Tejano vocalist to country stars in America,[21][22] her recording label believed the moment was right to release a crossover album, guaranteeing Selena to the pop music world.[23][24]" --> "Because of the success of Amor prohibido and of her Amor prohibido Tour, which had beat audience records raging from Tejano vocalist to country stars in America,[21][22] EMI Latin believed the moment was right to release a crossover album, guaranteeing an entrance for Selena to the pop music world.[23][24]"
  • "Saldívar, who was embezzling from the establishments, was Selena's friend and helped start the Selena Fan Club back in 1991.[27] Quintanilla Jr., presented Saldívar with inconsistencies concerning disappearing funds during a closed meeting at Q-Productions, a recording label founded by Quintailla Jr." -- remove
  • "The recording company, decided to posthumously release Dreaming of You the half finished crossover album, several months after Selena's murder because of the outcry by the Hispanic communities across the world.[26]" --> ") The recording company released Dreaming of You, the half-finished crossover album, several months after Selena's murder."
  • "Dreaming of You sold 175,000 copies its first day of release, a record for a pop singer.[28][29]"
  • "The album sold more than 331,000 copies its first week, which helped Selena to become the second-fastest selling female singer, behind Janet Jackson[30][31] [...]" --> just end the sentence here.
    • Skimmed through the sources and none talk about Janet Jackson.
  • "and Dreaming of You became the second-highest debut, behind Michael Jackson.[32][33][34][35]" --> "It debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, becoming the second-highest debut behind Michael Jackson.[32][33][34][35]"
    • A bit of Wikipedia:Citation overkill, don't you think?
    • You're an artist (referring to Michael Jackson) and an album (Dreaming of You). Either compare albums or compare artists; don't mix it up.
    • Not even looking at the citation, but second-highest debut on what? The Billboard 200? That has to be false, because several artist debut at number 1.
  • "The album sold 3,000,000 copies its first year, beating the record set by Selena with Amor prohibido and becoming "Latin's Best-Selling Album of All Time"." --> "The album sold 3,000,000 copies in the first year, beating the her previous record set by Amor prohibido and became "Latin's Best-Selling Album of All Time"." --> citation needed
  • "At the time of her murder, Selena became the first and only female singer to place five albums simultaneously on the Billboard 200, the only other artists to have done this were Elvis Presley, The Beatles and Garth Brooks.[11]" -- change the comma after Billboard 200 to a semi-colon ";"
Resolved comments: Fourth paragraph
:Fourth paragraph
  • done
Resolved comments: Tables and other ish
:Studio albums
  • Was her record label "EMI Latin" for Selena and "EMI" for the others? Looking at the album pages it seems to be "EMI Latin" for nearly all.
    Selena, Ven Conmigo, Entre a Mi Mundo, Selena Live! and Amor Prohibido were distributed by EMI Latin (Selena and Ven Conmigo had the old logo named Capitol/EMI Latin). Dreaming of You was distributed by both EMI Records and EMI Latin (according to the liner notes). Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 16:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consider abbreviating Cassette to "CS". It uses less space. Only an option though, you don't have to do it.
Live albums
  • Be consistent of how you show the formats. In the studio albums you have "LP, cassette, CD". It the live albums, you have it in different order. Pick and be consistent.
      Done
Compilation albums
Remix albums
Box sets
See also
  • Nothing to complain about here
References
  • Alright, so there's a big problem here. Maybe not for you but for me. It seems as you cite books without page numbers (ex. ref #1, #2).
    I use the "Templates" option (above where you edit a page) and when I add the information for books (ISBN) it doesn't give me the pages (which I recently found out) So I had to do only that part manually. I'll fix these right now, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 20:55, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • I highly recommend you just get familiar with the citation templates—{{cite web}}, {{cite book}}, {{cite news}}, and {{cite journal}}—by learning the most common parameters. It's easy, and once you get the hang out it, it's a lot quicker.
      • Oh I know those :D I was talking about the option located at the top of the page (when you edit) and its on the lower top left of this page. That's where I use the templates, before I would just copy-paste the codes. Best, 01:27, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I highly suggest you make a section titled "Notes", which is where your footnotes go, and have a section titled "References", where books and other things where you use multiple pages for multiple citations.
      Done Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 20:55, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • So a concern with the references is still the format of the books. Put every single book the the "References" section. Then every time you do a footnote, have <ref>Last name (year), p. ##</ref>. It really helps out and looks a lot nicer.
  • Ref 4
    • Can you explain to me how users are suppose to verify this?
      It's a {{cite episode}} are we not allowed to use episodes for verification? Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 20:55, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • I worded this horribly. What I was trying to say was something completely different. I was confused on what it was, but now I see. No problem.
  • Ref 7
  • Ref 9
    • Nothing needed here.
Resolved comments: Other stuff
:* Conclusion

The main thing holding this article back is criteria 1a and 1c. The prose is iffy at points, and the references need some major fixing up. With your current references, it is hard for a user to verify the article. I have this page watchlisted, so if you have questions, you can ask here.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 10:20, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

When using the subscription required article, use the quote= parameter. It will help (somewhat) about the verifying of articles.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 08:54, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Will do tomorrow. Sorry for the late response. Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 02:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. By the way, check out her Allmusic bio. It may (or may not) help with references. I know discog people love that site. Just a suggestion, however, you don't have to use it.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 17:34, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've done everything :-) Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 20:55, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alright. Give me a day or two to look over it and see whats up.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 23:17, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay :-) Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 23:20, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey AJona1992. I just want to throw in that the correct markup for multi-platinum albums is × not x. For example, 35×, not 35x. The format is (insert number here) & times ; (minus the spaces) Erick (talk) 08:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks bud, I will apply where needed. Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 17:41, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Probably something I should have said before, but has Selena charted outside of the US and Canada? Like maybe in Mexico?
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 03:18, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to online sources no. Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 00:59, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean by "online sources?"
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 01:10, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sources such as Billboard and Allmusic. BTW are these okay? They are then Top 100 Mexico I believe. Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 03:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yep. That's good. Anything that's from the Hung Medien websites are official. I'm going to take a quick peek around some sources tonight and see if there are some more chart positions I can find.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 03:29, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Since there were only two albums that peaked in this chart, should I apply to all columns for consistency? Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 03:32, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just make columns for the tables that need it.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 03:35, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Done Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 03:43, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Great job. Now all we have to work on is verification and references. I will start with the former tomorrow.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 04:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay! Thanks for all the help you have done, I really appreciated buddy. Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 05:07, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Verifications

Ok, so I'm gonna start with the tables first. Once we get all the verified refs, then we will work on formatting them correctly. I don't want us to do a bunch of work, only to have to change it five minutes later. Anyway, leggo.

That's all the problems for the tables. Once you get this done, we will work on the first paragraph.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 11:23, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, we gotta get this done this weekend. I got RL stuff coming up next week.

So I just went through the refs, and everything looks good on the verification. I fixed the first ref, too. These are my final comments, and I apologize the ending of the review went so slowly:

  • Move ALL books to the references sections
  • All books should have either ISBN or OCLC number
  • Books in the references section should be in alphabetical order by last name.
  • shorthanded footnotes should be "Last (Year), p. #" or "Last (year), pp. #–#"

I believe this has a good change to pass FLC once these are fixed. I won't be able to review it on FLC because I've done a major contribution, but I will look over it to try and help you out. Wish you the best of luck with the article.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 16:10, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review! Well since you have contributed to the article, would you mind if I added you as a co-nominator for this article at FLC? You don't have to if you don't want to. I have fixed everything now, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 18:57, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll pass on the co-nomination. I'll let you take all the credit :p. I will though look over the nomination and help out if I have time.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 23:52, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I'm about to make the changes that WP Penguin has noted below and then I'll nominate it at FLC. Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 00:11, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • A year later, Selena re-recorded several songs which were recorded during the 1980s on her first compilation album 16 super exitos originales.
  • Ven conmigo peaked at number three on the Latin Regional Mexican Albums chart.
  • Selena's father and manager Abraham Quintanilla, Jr. did not like Pérez and believed he was the antithesis of his "clean image" kids. He ordered Selena to never see Pérez and fired him from the band.[6] He told Selena that is she followed him he will disband the group. Reluctant, Selena and Pérez eloped, and her father felt ashamed of his behavior and accepted the relationship.[7]
  • Multple music critics believed Amor prohibido "opened the doors" to other Latin artsits such as Jennifer Lopez,[19] Christina Aguilera,[19] Enrique Iglesias[20] and Ricky Martin.[20]
  • The album helped Selena to be accepted in Mexico, where Mexican Americans were not accepted among the citizens because they were American people of Mexican descent.[8] Entre a mi mundo sold 385,000 copies in the United States its first year,[9] which became the first recording by a female Tejano vocalist to sell that many.[10]
  • On February 7, 1993, Selena held a free live concert at the Memorial Coliseum, which attracted 3,000 fans
  • EMI Latin believed the moment was right to release a crossover album, guaranteeing an entrance for Selena to the pop music world.[23][24] While recording sessions began in late 1994, Selena was beginning to end relations with her business associate and manager of Selena Etc., Yolanda Saldívar
  • Dreaming of You sold 175,000 copies its first day of release, a record for a pop singer.[27] The album sold more than 331,000 copies its first week, which helped Selena to become the second-fastest selling female singer, behind Janet Jackson.[28]
Why would this need to be removed? Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 00:20, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Another small detail. I can't see the importance of first week sales. This is all in the album articles, not necessary. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Selena is one of the most widely known Mexican-American vocal artists[34][35] and most popular Latin artist in the United States,[35] being named the "Best-Selling Latin Artist of the Decade" and "Top Latin Artist of the 90s" by Billboard
You've done a great job, but remember this is a discography, not a biography. In fact, I actually found this article to be longer than her bio on Wikipedia.—WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 21:28, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I know that but I've tried unsuccessfully to expand that article though others voiced that additions should not be made. Not my fault lolz. So I don't even contribute to that article anymore. I'll get to these right away, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 22:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This peer review discussion has been closed.

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