Wikipedia:Peer review/The Ex-Girlfriend/archive2

The Ex-Girlfriend

Previous peer review

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for a second peer review because I was, sort of, adviced to when it was at FAC. It was unclear to me what work should be done, I hope a reviewer can clear it up for me.

Thanks, --Music26/11 16:18, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: This is fairly well done, but I agree that the prose could use a bit of polish. So here are some suggestions for improvement. By the way, technically you are supposed to wait 14 days after an unsuccessful FAC before opening a peer review. It has been that long already (sorry for the delay)

• There are free images of Jerry Seinfeld, Jason Alexander, and Larry David in their articles - I think any of those would be preferred over an image of Tony Bennett (who does not actually appear or sing in the episode, if I understand correctly)

• The image is simply for illustrational purposes, I chose it because (on my monitor) it is exactly the size of the section and doesn't pierce through the "production" header.--Music26/11 10:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

• OK, it just seems odd to have an image of someone who does not physically appear (or sing) in the episode. I would think a picture of Seinfeld or Alexander or David would be more useful. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:46, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

• The Cultural references section seems the weakest to me - it seems to go into too much detail and explains the obvious (Sinatra). On my monitor it is about 2/3 as long as the plot, which raises some WP:WEIGHT issues. I do not write TV articles, so it may be this is fine and I ma just being picky.

• These sections are becoming more and more frequent in TV episode articles, that's the reason I created it. At the previous PR, the length and notability of the section was also an issue. Articles such as "You Only Move Twice", "Hell is Other Robots" have similiarly-sized cultural references sections. However, if this becomes a major issue at FAC, I'm willing to remove it.--Music26/11 10:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

• I am OK with a paragraph on cultural references, but think part of the problem was that the prose there needed to be tightened, plus the odd choice of the image (see above). Even now, I wonder why there is a mention of Steve McQueen? If Jerry mentions him in the show, I would make it something like During a discussion with Elaine, Jerry mentions the 1958 film The Blob and its star, Steve McQueen. If he does not mention McQueen, why include that odd fact here? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:46, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

• Overall the language is decent, but I agree with the FAC comment that it does not really flow well - wil try to point out some examples.
  • The episode was written by series co-creators Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld, and directed by Tom Cherones, and was inspired by one of Larry David's personal experiences. This sentence has the director in it which kind of breaks up the thought, (written by, inspired by might be smoother). What if it were just The episode was written by series co-creators Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld and was inspired by one of David's personal experiences.? (I think the MOS says the article should just use David's last name). The "directed by Tom Cherones" bit could be added elsewhere, perhaps to the next sentence, so something like Directed by Tom Cherones, "The Ex-Girlfriend" was the first episode of the show filmed at CBS Studio Center in Studio City, Los Angeles.

• Fixed.--Music26/11 10:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

• • What if the Sinatra part were something like After George receives a bill from his chiropractor, he asks "75 bucks? What, am I seeing Sinatra in there?" Singer and actor Frank Sinatra coincidentally died the same day the last episode of Seinfeld was aired on NBC.[1][2][3] Not even sure the "singer and actor " part is needed, but probably safer to keep it in.

• Yeah lets keep that in for the 1% of the population that doesn't know who he is:P.--Music26/11 10:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

• • I think tightening the prose improves flow, but better logical order also helps. In the Production section, my understanding is that a show is first written, then cast, then rehearsed and filmed, then edited, and finally broadcast. In this section we learn about writing, then about scenes cut prior to broadcast (editing), then a scene changed before filming (library to Monk's), then the table read and filming, then casting Tracy Kolis, then details about filming and reusing extras.
  • If it were me I would start with writing, then go to casting Kolis, then talk about filming (and make sure to put the two mentions of Monk's together so perhaps start with that, then the sets and car trick and reusing extras), then scenes cut before broadcast.
  • Suggestions for tighter / smoother prose: The opening scene in Jerry's car, in which George discusses with Jerry about breaking up with Marlene, originally had George proposing to Jerry that he stage his own kidnapping ... (already know it is Jerry's car, who else would George be talking to? could keep the second Jerry if needed)
  • Originally, the scene in which Jerry tells George that he is dating Marlene took place in a library, with a librarian repeatably [repeatedly] shushing George and Jerry and kicking them out of the library at the end of the scene. The location of this dialogue was changed to Monk's Cafe, a regular hangout spot for the show's main characters, because Jerry and George's [the] dialogue had nothing to do with a library.[1]
  • The first table read of the episode took place on October 17, 1990.[, and it] It was filmed in front of a studio audience six days later, on October 23.
  • Suggested change to something like "The Ex-Girlfriend" was the first Seinfeld episode to be filmed on stage 19 of the CBS Studio Center in Studio City, Los Angeles, California. The majority of season one had been filmed at the Desilu Cahuenga studio, in Hollywood, California, where The Dick Van Dyke Show had also been filmed.[8]
  • The chiropractor's waiting room, in which George finds he was charged too much for a visit to the chiropractor, was the only new set that appeared in the episode.[1]
  • Though the scenes in Monk's Cafe were filmed at CBS Studio Center, the exterior of Tom's Restaurant, a diner at Broadway and 112th Street in Manhattan, was used as the exterior for the cafe.[9]
  • Auditions were held for the part of Marlene; [A]ctresses who auditioned for the part [of Marlene] included ...
  • I would use start instead in commencement of the First Gulf War.

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)