Wikipedia:Peer review/Theodore II Laskaris/archive1

Theodore II Laskaris

I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to receive comments and suggestions how to improve it before its FA candidature.

Thanks, Borsoka (talk) 08:09, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Comments by Unlimitedlead

Happy to take this on soon. Unlimitedlead (talk) 21:10, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

• The lead does not mention that Theodore was Claimant Byzantine Emperor in exile, but I think it should be added. If not, it should be removed from the infobox.

• Deleted from the infobox.

• The infobox says that Theodore began his reign on 3 November 1254, but the lead says 4 November 1254.

• Fixed.

• How do we know that Theodore died aged 36 (in the infobox) if his birth year is not certain?

• Modified.

More to follow. Unlimitedlead (talk) 17:38, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for starting the review. Borsoka (talk) 10:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Childhood

• "Theodore I died in November 1221" Of natural causes? Or was there foul play involved?

• None of my sources reveals it.

Education

• "The marriage of Theodore and Elena sealed their fathers' alliance..." When were they married? You have not said that they actually married.

• In 1235 as it is stated in the sentence. The details of the marriage are mentioned in section "Family".

More to follow. Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:02, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

First administrative tasks

• "John II Asen": You call him "Ivan Asen II" before.

• Modified. Borsoka (talk) 01:32, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

More to follow. It is looking excellent so far, that is why I have had so little to say. Unlimitedlead (talk) 14:37, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Friends

• Why is this section called Friends if most of it is about defamatory remarks made against Theodore?

• Modified.

• The second paragraph of this section is quite lengthy and hard to follow. I would suggest trimming and/or rewording.

• Trimmed.

• Why not mention that the image of Theodore is from the Mutinensis gr. 122?

• Done. Borsoka (talk) 04:58, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

More to follow. Unlimitedlead (talk) 14:59, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Towards sole rule

• Add reign dates for Conrad IV of Germany?

? Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:20, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

• Sorry, I do not understand your proposal. The reign dates are not mentioned in the article.

I was asking if you could add the {{reigned|x|x}} template. Unlimitedlead (talk) 12:05, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Ascension

• Wikipedia favors "accession" over "ascension".

• Done.

• "...patriarchal throne was vacant": Which patriarch is in reference?

• Link added.

• "...Manfred, who had recently become the actual ruler of the Kingdom of Sicily": Why the strange wording?

• Modified. The illegitimate Manfred was crowned king only in 1258.

• "Historian Michael Angold proposes...": False title?

• Modified. Borsoka (talk) 03:50, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

More to follow. Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:48, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Wars with Bulgaria

• Reign dates for Michael II Asen?

• The reign dates are not mentioned in the article.

• "...exploited Vatatzes' death to reconquer the lands...": Strange wording, I would say something like "...took advantage of Vatatzes' death to reconquer the lands..."

• Done.

• "...he ordered two aristocrats, Alexios Strategopoulos and Demetrios Tornikes...": Were these local aristocrats, or did Theodore bring them from the East?

• Done.

• "When they unexpectedly heard the sounds of the horns of shepherds and swineherds, they broke into a run in panic, abandoning their baggage": It was unclear that this sentence refers to the generals.

• Only the two generals are mentioned in the previous sentence.

• "He also ordered the punishment of members of old aristocratic families": Why?

• Rephrased.

• "Divergent views on the procession of the Holy Spirit...": A better link here would be History of the filioque controversy.

• Done. Borsoka (talk) 02:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

More to follow. Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:20, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Expansion

• "Theodore received the papal legate, Bishop Constantine of Orvieto, in Thessalonica. Their negotiations proved fruitless, because the legate's authorization was limited and Theodore was unwilling to make concessions for the church union": I think the fact that the legate arrived to discuss the church union needs to be stated earlier rather than later.

• Done.

• "..because the legate's authorization was limited...": authorization to do what?

• Done.

Illness and death

• "George Pachymeres, who was less than sixteen years old at the time, diagnosed his illness as epilepsy...": Was this diagnosis at the time, or was it him writing many years later?

• Modified.

• "John Lascaratos and Panaghiotis V. Zis maintain that...": Introduce these people. And is the "V." necessary? I was confused upon first read, thinking it was a punctuation error.

• Done.

• "Historian Donald M. Nicol...": False title?

• Done.

• "Medical historian Georgios Makris...: Ditto?

• Done.

• "Historian Dimiter Angelov...": And here?

• Done.

• "...proposes that Theodore most likely had cancer of the brain, the spine, or the lungs": Do we know the reasons for this hypothesis?

• Expanded.

• "His illness prevented Theodore from commanding his troops in person": This sounds strange; I would say something like "Theodore's illness prevented him from commanding his troops in person"

• Modified.

• Link Manfred of Sicily?

• Already linked in section "Accession".

• "...Manfred of Sicily renewed his predecessors' claim to Byzantine territories...": Byzantine territories where? In Italy, or elsewhere?

• Explained.

• "Irene went to Bulgaria to marry Konstantin Tih": When?

• During the last months of Theodore's life, as it suggested by the context.

• "He became a monk, but he kept his baptismal name": It was unclear who this sentence refers to.

• Explained.

More to follow. Unlimitedlead (talk) 22:52, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

@Borsoka Shall I just finish my comments now? Unlimitedlead (talk) 15:04, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Why do you want to finish it? Borsoka (talk) 15:44, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

@Borsoka Usually I wait until my comments have been completed before adding new ones, but since I am about to leave the country and you seem to be busy, I was wondering if I should just lay them all down now. Unlimitedlead (talk) 15:46, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your patience. I think I addressed all the problems you mentioned above. I hope you will have time to complete the review. Borsoka (talk) 18:44, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Family

• "Historian Albert Failler...": False title?

• Done

• Does the chart "Theodore's family and his relationship to Byzantine imperial families" have any reliable sources to back it up? If not, removal might be in order.

• Yes, it has to be verified.

• Not necessary, but I recommend consulting other sources if you wish for a smooth FAC nomination. Prosopographie der mittelbyzantinischen Zeit; ODB; Treadgold; and Ostrogorsky might be good places to consider as a basic starting point.

That is all from me at this time. Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:21, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

• I mentioned the relevant ODB article in the "Further reading" section (it does not add value in comparison with the other sources cited). Treadgold is cited in the article. I doubt that the Prosopographie and Ostrogorsky contain information which is not mentioned in the sources cited.

Thank you very much for your comprehensive review. Borsoka (talk) 01:10, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

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