Wikipedia:Peer review/Yuzuru Hanyu Olympic seasons/archive1

Yuzuru Hanyu Olympics seasons

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This peer review discussion is closed.

I've listed this article for peer review because this article was a split article from Yuzuru Hanyu during its GA review process, and since then it has been updated and developed to be a stand-alone article. As the other split article, List of career achievements by Yuzuru Hanyu, has reached FL status, Henni147 and I are thinking to bring this at least to GA level as well. Since there hasn't been an article on a skater's Olympics seasons like this on Wiki, we don't have any standard to follow and I'm thinking peer-reviewing would be a good chance to gather other ideas before nominating it for GA or FA.

Thanks, Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 09:01, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Zetana

First impressions are that it's very good, and complete in content. I will just review for prose to help tighten up the writing. It'll take me a few days (busy IRL and onwiki) but I should be able to get you a first batch of comments by this weekend. Zetana (talk) 04:50, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Looking forward for your comments. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 06:09, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

apologies, i've been very busy, so i haven't managed to get around to this. i will leave you comments tomorrow as soon as i can. Zetana (talk) 07:33, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Zetana: I checked and polished some sections (the 2014 Olympic programs and Winter Games amongst others). The 2021-22 season section is expected to change in the upcoming weeks, but the rest should be ready for review now. Henni147 (talk) 14:52, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Figureskatingfan

Firstly, my regrets for not being able to get to this PR before this; I barely have time to sleep these days! But I'm on semester break these days, so I'm now able to get to it. Like Zetana above, I will copyedit as needed, but reserve this space for comments and suggestions. Also like Zetana, my first impressions are that it's very good, but needs a few tweaks and changes before you bring it to GAN, which I suggest that you go ahead and do now so that it's a GA before the Olympics. I also suggest that you ask folks to review it there, to expedite the process, since as I'm sure you're already aware, the queue is always notoriously long. And then you should nominate it for DYK so that it's on the main page during the Olympics.

Images. I'm not checking the copyright of these images, but AGF that they're okay. Instead, I'm looking at the captions, with the following suggestions:

First image: Yuzuru Hanyu winning his first gold medal at the 2014 Winter Olympics - Caption isn't entirely accurate; Hanyu isn't winning the medal; he's posing with it. Small and picky point, but I can tell you someone will bring it up later. Perhaps you can say something like: "Yuzuru Hanyu during the 2014 Winter Olympics, after winning his first Olympic gold medal"

Image under Key events before the 2013–14 season sub-section, similar issue as above: Hanyu winning his first world medal and finishing third behind Patrick Chan (center) and Daisuke Takahashi (left) - How about changing it to: "Hanyu during the 2012 World's Championship, when he came in third place, behind Patrick Chan (center) and Daisuke Takahashi (left)"

Image under Free skate program: Romeo and Juliet sub-section. Is that really a close-up of the costume? Isn't it really just the costume at his torso and above? Is there another image you can use with a full-length look at the costume? If not, perhaps this instead: "Hanyu posing in his free skate costume during the 2013 Finlandia Trophy".

Image under Pre-Olympic events sub-section: Same issue as the image of Hanyu winning this first world medal. I'll let you come up with a better caption.

Post-Olympic events sub-section: As above.

Key events before the 2017–18 season sub-section: How about "Hanyu during his free skate at the 2017 World Championships, when he won his second world title and set a new world record".

Key events before the 2021–22 season subsection: How about "Hanyu with his gold medal during the [[2020 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships|2020 Four Continents Championships], when he became the first male single skater to accomplish a career Super Slam".

Key events before the 2013–14 season subsection: I would change the wording to this a bit, the first sentence in the second paragraph, to "After the 2011–12 season, Hanyu changed coaches, from Nanami Abe, with whom he had trained with since 2004 [or 2005?], and moved to Canada to train with Brian Orser at the Toronto Cricket Club". When you say that an athlete "left" a coach, it sounds too much like they were in another kind of relationship, doncha know. Eww!! ;)
Free skate program: Romeo and Juliet: For the free skate, Hanyu selected the music from the film Romeo and Juliet (1968) composed by Nino Rota... I would remove the rest of this sentence; you have the film linked and the play is well-known enough not to need it. I also suggest adding that the film was directed by Franco Zeffirelli because you mention another important movie version of R&J in the following sentence. I also suggest that you add that the 1996 version was directed by Baz Luhrmann. (I make both suggestions because I'm an English nerd, so I'd make those changes purely for editorial reasons. It's up to you if you want to follow them. I also think it's cool that Hanyu used music from two important versions of R&J.)
Pre-Olympic events (2013-2014): His scores of 103.10 in the short program and 297.80 in the combined total both exceeded the incumbent world records, but were not recognized as new records by the ISU because national championships are not sanctioned figure skating events. This isn't entirely accurate, and makes (I think) the ISU seem mean and arbitrary. It's more accurate to say something like "...but were not recognized as new world records because the ISU only includes international competitions in their records, not national championships".

More later. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:38, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your suggestions. I have edited the article based on them (and kinda tweaked the captions a little). About the GA, I was thinking to go ahead but then I realized the last two sections are basically still in-progress since the season is happening now. So, I don't know if that will be okay, because a potential GA should be stable. CMIIW. If it's okay, I think we can go ahead after Japanese nationals end. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:14, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Figureskatingfan: Very big thanks from me for your detailed suggestions as well! I don't know how it's with the word 'posing' in English, but in German the term 'posieren' has a bit of a negative undertone (sounding like he was 'showing off'). So I prefer to avoid that term if possible to ensure neutral wording.

@Yolo4A4Lo: I adjusted some picture captions and sizes to fully utilize the caption space and keep it as small and compact as possible. I hope, that's okay. I also tried to rephrase the sentence about the unofficial world records at Japanese Nationals 2013. It sounded a bit repetitive to read the word "record(s)" four times in the same sentence.

About the current 21–22 section: I already have a pool of newspaper sources for the new Rondo Capriccioso SP, more details about the injury before NHK and the ongoing Japanese Nationals as well. If it's okay, I'd like to take on that section this weekend, so that we don't have any editing conflicts. Henni147 (talk) 09:23, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome, it's fun and I'm glad that I finally have the time to do it. Remember that these are just suggestions; take what you like and leave the rest, as they say. ;) Good point about the GA. I forgot, in my excitement about wanting attention for Yuzuru and the Olympics, and for you guys that are working so hard on this article, that I've come to basically the same realization about figure skating bios. I think a good practice for skaters currently active is to put off any reviews (GAN, FAC, DYK) until after their skating careers are over. People are going to flock to this and other Hanyu articles during the Olympics, anyway. The point is to get them as ready as possible for when that happens.

Re "posing": again, just a suggestion. Instead of using the word in the caption of Hanyu in his costume, how about: "Hanyu in his free skate costume at the 2013 Finlandia Trophy". Henni, I will try and finished this PR before the weekend, and I'll take a look at the new content next week. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:32, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing:

One more image question: I wonder if we should include an image of Johnny Weir in one of his "white and sparkly" costumes that inspired Hanyu. What do you think?

I browsed around Johnny's photos in Wikimedia, and I reckon we can use this one and put it side-by-side with Hanyu's photo? The caption could be "Johnny Weir, designer of Hanyu's 2013-14 free skate program costume, in one of his costumes". - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:14, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Figureskatingfan: For various reasons, I'd prefer not to include any picture from Weir here. The focus should be on Hanyu's program and costume imo and I feel that the paragraph would be too loaded with pictures. If someone's curious about Weir's costume style, he or she can take a look at his bios page. Henni147 (talk) 19:34, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Henni, I'm fine with your reasoning about not including Johnny's image in an article about Hanyu; it makes so much sense. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:46, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Free skate program: Romeo and Juliet subsection: Wilson, who had already rejected Hanyu's request to skate to The Phantom of the Opera in the previous season, eventually agreed after worrying Hanyu would have asked someone else if he refused again. I think this sentence is unclear, but I'm not sure what to do with the second phrase. (See my changes to the first phrase.) Was Wilson concerned about Hanyu using the same piece anyway but using another choreographer? Did Wilson not want another choreographer because he didn't think another choreographer would do it justice with Hanyu? I'm asking because I think that the answers affect the phrase's wordings. If the source doesn't answer it, we can still make it clearer, though.

Hanyu wanted to skate to Romeo and Juliet either way. It was his determination. And Wilson feared that he would go ask another choreographer to create the program for him if Wilson turned down the request. Henni147 (talk) 19:34, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks. I revised the last phrase: "...eventually agreed after realizing that Hanyua would use the music, anyway." Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:46, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

After season honors [2014] sub-section: WP's MOS recommends against single-sentence paragraphs; see MOS:PARA. I suggest simply combining all the paragraphs in this sub-section into one paragraph. Come to think of it, I think you should go through the entire article and combine some of the shorter paragraphs.

I have merged some of short paragraphs, but left some which I think can't be merged since the topic mentioned is pretty different from the paragraph above/under them. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:14, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-Olympic events, 1st paragraph: He executed all of his jumping passes cleanly, with two of them receiving the highest grade of execution (+3.00) unanimously from the judges. I think that you should add the phrase "possible at the time", since the highest GOE is now +5. Done - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:14, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You need to add a ref after Hanyu's quote about the quad Axel.

I took a look at the MOS guidelines for citations with quoteboxes and it recommends to place the inline citation at the end of the introductory sentence before the blockquote, which is done here with all blockquotes. I also reverted the punctuation of direct quotes to the original punctuation. I'm not sure how Wikipedia handles direct quotes, but here at university, the common rule for direct quotes is to include the punctuation within the quotation marks if it's identical with the original source, and put the punctuation mark outside the quotation marks if it varies from the original (e.g. the original quote ends with a comma, but in your work it ends with a fullstop). Henni147 (talk) 19:34, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Programs of the 2021–22 season sub-section: It was also Hanyu's first collaboration with both choreographers, Jeffrey Buttle and Shae-Lynn Bourne. Was it the first time Hanya collaborated with both Buttle and Bourne at the same time, for the same program? If so, please clarify, perhaps like this: "It was also the first time Hanyu collaborated in the choreography with both Jeffrey Buttle and Shae-Lynn Bourne for the same program." Done - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:14, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Free skate program sub-section: Hanyu associated it with humanity or a person that might be himself. Please clarify this sentence. Do you mean that Hanyu associated (or interpreted) the third element to mean humanity or the true nature of a person?

How about "Hanyu interpreted the third element to mean humanity, with himself as an example"? @Henni147: - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:14, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hanyu said in particular: "In my mind, I had an image of heaven and earth, and humanity, or a person, perhaps myself, like an image that it’s “Yuzuru Hanyu.” " I will try to figure out how to phrase this best in the paragraph. Henni147 (talk) 19:34, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. In other words, Hanyu wanted to present himself as a representative of that third element. Does that help to introduce the representational aspect of the themes in the program? Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:46, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hanyu's costume was designed by Satomi Ito, who took the family crest of the Uesugi clan as inspiration for the costume details, including the golden sparrows on the back of the top. Last phrase: Where are the golden sparrows exactly? The top of the back of the crest? Or the top of the back of the sparrows? Please clarify.

I think we can describe it as "including the golden sparrows on the back shoulders part of the costume"? You can see the the sparrows here, near his neckline. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:14, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think I am now done. I appreciate your willingness to put up with my pickiness, but I sincerely want to help make this into the best article it can be. It's already great, so you should be proud. Thanks for your hard work; I'm sure Yuzuru appreciates it. Let's hope we get to see some Pooh bears at the Olympics, although I highly doubt it. ;) Please let me know if you have any more questions and how I can assist. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:27, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Yolo4A4Lo:@Figureskatingfan: Sorry for the delayed reply. Thank you very much for the additions! I will take a closer look at the changes later. Unfortunately, I hurt my hip in the doorknob today and I'm still busy with cooling the bruise. But I'll try to do some minor updates. Henni147 (talk) 13:12, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I completed the section about JNats now. There's still information missing about Rondo Capriccioso that I want to add tomorrow, but the rest should be fine. Henni147 (talk) 19:34, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine what's been done so far. Good work! Not as impressive as the quad Yuzuru completed this weekend, but close. ;) Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:46, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much again for your suggestions! I hope, the latest section about JNats is fine. Regarding Ten to Chi to: I made a full composition analysis of that program including the translation of the leitmotif in the choreography (starting and ending pose amongst others). It's impossible to add all these details here in this article, but it might be a useful reference for future discussions about that section. Henni147 (talk) 23:34, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]