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November 20

Static technology

In the future, could we have another planet that is very similar to Earth, except progress is not allowed, so the population are required to remain at Neolithic levels of technology? (The population are not informed about the outside world.)

The reason I ask is because of this essay. ApricotPine (talk) 20:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

For one thing, we are not supposed to offer predictions. Anything could happen in the future unless impossible by the laws of reason or by the laws of nature. So we can only discuss whether scenarios exist leading to this outcome while not violating known laws.

It is unclear who, in the sketched dystopia (or eutopia, depending on one's views), is enforcing the proscription of progress. Is this a culturally accepted restriction, in which the traditional way of life is revered so much that even the act of suggesting innovations is considered an abomination? In that case it is irrelevant whether they know about technologically advanced societies. Or are they ignorant about science, with an outside force eliminating people with an sharp mind who might discover and develop new technologies improving the way of life?  --Lambiam 23:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Peter J. Bowler wrote a book called The invention of progress, and Robert Nisbet wrote A history of the idea of progress. I haven't read either of these, but would like to. Clearly Progress#Philosophy is an idea, which a culture can become aware of and mythologize. Prior to this awareness, the culture may believe itself to be static, to exist in eternal golden stability as a static society, and may mythologize that. As Lambiam indicated, if progress is considered sufficiently sinful, it may be successfully prevented indefinitely, even in the face of other cultures that embrace innovations. The Amish provide a kind of example, although they're more conservative about innovation than completely opposed to it. I've heard the interesting suggestion that the reason for the apparent excruciatingly slow rate of progress throughout the paleolithic era and to some extent the neolithic was that a lot of creative effort went into preventing innovation from taking place, because creativity is not identical to innovation.

But what does all this have to do with the essay about meat-eating?  Card Zero  (talk) 04:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@ApricotPine: This was the subject of multiple Star Trek episodes throughout the history of the franchise. It never turned out well. Ironically, (and take this with a grain of salt, please) there is amusing speculation among enthusiasts of the Fermi paradox (as a thought experiment), that one of these solutions, the Zoo hypothesis, however unlikely, implies that we, humans on Earth, are the species where "progress" (see the Kardashev scale) is not "allowed". While most people will dismiss this as total nonsense, something weird is going on with these numbers: our species has been around for 6 million years, modern humans evolved 200k years ago, and civilization is only 6k years old. From one POV, we've had plenty of time to adapt and overcome our limitations and progress as a species, and we've basically done nothing. We are still, pretty much the same hairless apes with the same biases and preferences and weird hopes and dreams. So in a way, we are the people you describe, Zoo hypothesis or not. Our values have not changed in 6000 years. Viriditas (talk) 20:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Our species (Homo sapiens) has only been around for about 300,000 years. 6 million years was the split between our ancestors and the ancestors of chimpanzees. The very long time it then took to develop civilization is (I suspect, I'm not an expert) that you needed a specific combination of enough people with the right ideas all living in the same area at the same time, and with the right environmental conditions to make it worthwhile. For much of human existence, our ancestors would have been too few and too spread out for civilization to be useful or even feasible, even if someone had come up with the idea. Iapetus (talk) 11:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I stand in solidarity with our hominid species, and I think I speak for all of us when I say, I think I'll have another banana and go back to sleep. Viriditas (talk) 20:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

November 21

Integrated LUFS calculation

Is it correct that the integrated LUFS is based on the momentary loudness rather than individual samples? BTW, I've have already implemented an option to select a source (either individual samples, momentary, or even short-term) to use for the integrated LUFS calculation on the loudness (LUFS) meter part of my own peakmeter so this can be tested. 2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2 (talk) 03:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The response of a moving-coil VU meter (black line) compared to an electronic PPM indicator (grey area) of a drum beat. Level is in dB and time is in seconds

Audio samples have pressure amplitudes but do not individually exhibit Loudness that must be calculated by summation of energy in critical bands. See the EBU reference (EBU R 128) LOUDNESS NORMALISATION AND PERMITTED MAXIMUM LEVEL OF AUDIO SIGNALS. An estimate of momentarily perceived peak loudness in broadcasting is meaningful only if it integrates over long enough time to properly resolve the critical band containing the lowest audio frequency component that may be 20 Hz. Note that many broadcasting sound engineers prefer the ballistic response of VU meters with which they are familiar, see illustration. Philvoids (talk) 11:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

November 22

Arctic snow removal

In arctic cities where there is no sun to melt snow for weeks and it can snow multiple inches each day, where do they put the snow? Is it just pushed to the edge of town as a massive snow wall? Do they truck it to a temporary snow fill? Do they snow melting facilities? 68.187.174.155 (talk) 01:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

In larger cities, at least, they pile the snow in public parking lots and such. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

And in some they include, in and between the buildings, walkways and retail outlets, etc. one floor level above the ground, from which snow can be swept, so they don't need to use the outdoor snow-buried ground. [Ob pers: Helsinki.] {The poster formerly known as 87.812.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 07:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Here is a video of snow removal in Tromsø, the third largest city in the Arctic Circle: [1]. You can see a few options including "spray it into the trees", but most of the snow in the video is collected into large dump trucks and then unloaded into the water of the straits surrounding the city. --Amble (talk) 18:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

During the snow season end of November to end of March Reykyavik, Iceland has a contingency plan for snow clearing whose priorities are 1: Main roads, important connecting roads for emergency services, busy collecting roads, and bus routes; 2: Other collecting roads and access to preschools and primary schools and 3: Residential streets. Roads are cleared by snow-removing machines that clear ice using salt or preferably brine to ensure safety with as little salt as possible. The city provides depots where residents can collect sand and salt for use in their neighborhoods and driveways. The reference gives service details and maps in English. National snow forecasts are shown here with past climate data in the first rerferenced article. Philvoids (talk) 18:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

In Moscow and St. Petersburg snow is transported by lorries to snow-melting machines. In ordinary Russian cities they transport piles of snow to huge snow dumps in the countryside. This transportation is a rather costly enterprise, so smaller towns and neighbourhoods just leave a pile of snow in each yard to wait until the sun melts it in late April. Ghirla^-трёп- 22:16, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

That's how they deal with snow in Alaska Ghirla^-трёп- 22:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

November 23

Odd snow traces

I've recently noticed these strange dot-like traces on snow where I live. The place is outside of tree cover and my second guess were rain drops, but on the second photo below the traces appear only on the fringe of snow cover. What could form them? Brandmeister^talk 13:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

The "dotted" area looks to me as if someone scattered road salt over that part of the snow, either by hand or machine. Especially at the bottom of the top photo, you can see some of the individual pieces of salt in each "dot". In the second photo, the snowless area could have been a strip cleared by use of a larger amount of salt and maybe it was not scattered evenly and spread into the "dotted" area. --142.112.149.206 (talk) 14:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Sounds plausible, thanks. Brandmeister^talk 16:10, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

November 24

US clothing requirements circa 1914

I'm reading about the California Impressionists circa 1914, and I can't get over the photos of these artists painting en plein air in full, three-piece suits. To my eyes in 2024, it seems absolutely ridiculous, but I am curious about the social conventions behind this. Was it considered improper for a "gentleman" to paint outside in a shirt and shorts? Why? And who was behind enforcing this? The whole thing makes no sense to me. Viriditas (talk) 21:02, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Appearing in your shirt without a jacket was definitely the mark of a labourer in the 19th-century. A saying was "From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations" which meant that the wealth accumulated by one generation was likely to be squandered by their grandchildren. [2] This formality was a long time in passing; in the City of London office where I started work in the 1970s, a business suit was required for males and you were expected to put on your jacket if you were meeting a customer or even a manager (there was no air conditioning). Alansplodge (talk) 22:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

This photo was taken in 1874. He's sitting in the full Hawaiian sun with a suit on. You can't really tell, but it looks like a wool suit to me. All of this forced discomfort because they don't want to appear working class? It's really hard to believe and wrap my mind around. "Let's be as uncomfortable as possible because other people might think we work for a living." Makes no sense, sorry. I get that these strange ideas are passed along from generation to generation, but at some point you have to just say, "this is crazy, I don't care what people think". So why didn't people do that? Viriditas (talk) 23:33, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

There was a picture of Richard Nixon, from the late 1950s or so, showing him walking on a beach, while wearing a full business suit. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:03, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

This one? But you know I'm not too sure what he's wearing for a jacket there, it seems to have a zipper, and to be made of a different material. That's more apparent in color photos, such as this one where he is being troubled by a Yorkshire terrier.  Card Zero  (talk) 11:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Those jackets are super comfortable. I went through a vintage clothing phase in the 1980s (it was a thing before it was a thing) and got to wear a lot of old clothing, from the 1920s all the way up to the 1970s, and those Nixon jackets were everywhere. I can't remember what they were called, but when you wore them, there was a military and sporty aesthetic involved. The only thing I don't like about those jackets is that every time you sit down or stand up from a seated position, the versions of that jacket with an elastic waistband tend to bunch up and you have to adjust the jacket. I can't tell if Nixon's has the elastic or not. Viriditas (talk) 19:48, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

The Picard Maneuver. (See section 3.2.) --142.112.149.206 (talk) 10:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I didn't even have to look; I've watched enough Trek to know exactly what you meant. Viriditas (talk) 10:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Cultural expectations are very powerful, much more so than mere laws. Not only does one feel pressure from one's peers to conform, and expect their disapproval if one were to break a cultural norm, one absorbs them at a subconscious level and feels internally uncomfortable at breaking them.

I (born in the 1950s) was brought up in a culture (the UK) which expected male office workers at all levels to wear a suit (waistcoat optional) at work, and personally felt uncomfortable not doing so up until the mid 1980s, after which I transitioned to wearing (usually) a sports jacket given the choice, but several subsequent employers required me to wear a suit until around 2010, and expectation of a suit at, for example, job interviews are still widespread.

One of the reasons one sees men of the pre-WW2 era wearing suits outdoors is (I suggest) that most of them probably didn't even possess any less 'formal' (by modern standards) wear designed specifically for wearing outdoors/in public. If one is acclimatised to always wearing a particular type of clothes, their feel becomes the norm rather than 'uncomfortable', and it might never even occur to one that another, unfamiliar style might be 'more comfortable.' One of the reasons that Lawrence of Arabia won the trust of the Arabs he worked with was that he, very unusually, adopted their (climate-appropriate) dress rather than sticking to English style clothing as almost all others did.

L. P. Hartley wrote "The past is a different country, they do things differently there." I wonder how many things you, Viriditas, do today unthinkingly that people in the 22nd century will find ridiculous or inexplicable? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 05:24, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

What I was getting at has more to do with the sense of Victorian morality and its influence on fashion. But you raise a good point about climate-appropriate dress. Why does it seem that form wins out over function until about the 1960s? Viriditas (talk) 09:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

We lack an article about Station (sociological concept). It used to hold a powerful psychological grip on people, rather like Face (sociological concept). In 1669, Samuel Pepys had a new suit with gold lace and a "coloured camelott tunique". He was "afeard to be seen in it", not because he'd look like an idiot, but "because it was too fine". He worries about it on May 1st, and again on May 2nd, and still doesn't dare wear it. About 150 years before that, a startup was a kind of shoe (not to be confused with booting). Wiktionary has an etymology based on its height up the leg: actually many examples were only ankle-high. But note that one of the quotes is from ‎‎‎‎A Quip for an Upstart Courtier, and another meaning of the word is the same as upstart. These are shoes that a peasant maybe shouldn't wear, because they're slightly too nice, and above the peasant's station. Back in 1669, on May 10th, Pepys is vexed by remarks a friend makes about how fine his coach is, and this friend "advises me to avoid being noted for it, which I was vexed to hear taken notice of, it being what I feared and Povy told me of my gold-lace sleeves in the Park yesterday, which vexed me also", and so he resolves never to appear in the royal court with the sleeves, and in fact has them cut off. Presumably if he went around dressed above his station - tricky to calculate - he risks social shunning, and wouldn't get his dream job (for instance, starting the Royal Navy, becoming a member of parliament, and being president of the Royal Society). This is clearly a load of bullshit: such appointments shouldn't depend on wearing the right amount of gold lace. Round about 1800, men seem to finally grasp this, and we have the Great Male Renunciation, which is where the custom of wearing sober suits in muted colors begins. Note that they were functional and practical, at the time, compared to what went before. But men are still really stupidly worried about what their clothes are asserting about their station in life, even with all the gold ornaments taken off and the color subdued, and this continues for another hundred years, at least. On the one day he actually dared to wear his fancy suit, Sam Pepys records: "This day I first left off both [!] my waistcoats by day, and my waistcoat by night, it being very hot weather, so hot as to make me break out, here and there, in my hands, which vexes me to see, but is good for me." People thought suffering in hot weather was healthy? To quote the great sage Butt-Head, "I don't know, maybe they're stupid". Clothes denoted status because cloth was expensive, hence the ruff, a display of cramming as much cloth as physically possible around one's neck. And these status-through-amount-of-cloth-worn anxieties are very old, and go back to the social status obsessed Romans, and the voluminous toga.  Card Zero  (talk) 10:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Subscribe. Viriditas (talk) 10:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</ref>

Apparently, some Englishmen (with or without their mad dogs) emigrated to Hawaii. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Let's help everyone out with a link. Viriditas (talk) 09:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I think that you might get used to being hot because of lots of clothes. If you've been brought up wearing multiple woolen layers in the summer, then it would be normal, whereas modern children are used to running around in shorts and T-shirts.

The French Army in both World Wars required their soldiers to wear a heavy woollen greatcoat all year around, which would be a lot hotter than a suit.

Alansplodge (talk) 18:44, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I think Laurie Lee mentions in Cider With Rosie that farm labourers would add an extra layer to keep the heat of the sun out. And I remember farmworkers wearing cardigans, jacket, and tie in blazing hot weather. DuncanHill (talk) 19:19, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

They still do in Hawaii. It's odd to see if you're not used to it. I may have some old photos somewhere. Viriditas (talk) 19:44, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

In the 1980s I worked for a small software house in Cambridge (the original Cambridge, not a foreign imitation) and we had no dress code (and, of course, people were responsible, and dressed appropriately if they were meeting visitors etc). We were acquired by a large US-based company, and I was posted to a facility near the headquarters for a few months in 1990. I knew that their dress code was shirt and tie, and that wasn't a problem. My first week there, they told me about dress-down Friday, and I honestly thought they were pranking me, because it was such a self-evidently bonkers idea. Either the management cared about your comfort or they didn't: what was the point of casual dress one day a week? ColinFine (talk) 11:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

All of this forced discomfort because they don't want to appear working class? It's really hard to believe and wrap my mind around. "Let's be as uncomfortable as possible because other people might think we work for a living. I think even a lot of working-class people wore suits back in the day. Wearing a suit of that sort (even when it was uncomfortable or climatically inappropriate) was I think more just due to social conventions about what was respectable, than a way to demonstrate that you didn't work for a living. Iapetus (talk) 12:50, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, it's plausible that the "social conventions about what was respectable" began as a way to signal that one wasn't a labourer. See also blue-collar worker. Alansplodge (talk) 22:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

1930s leukemia treatment

Were there treatments for leukemia in the 1930s? 86.130.15.246 (talk) 21:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the newly discovered X-ray was used to treat leukemia. Doctors found that radiation therapy worked best against chronic leukemias, but it was useless against acute types. X-rays could provide months or even years of remission for people with chronic leukemia, but the disease would always return.

The first medications for leukemia grew out of the horrors of World War I, when it was discovered that the chemical weapon mustard gas suppressed the production of blood cells.

---

• Wolpert, Jessica (April 28, 2021). "The History of Leukemia Explained". www.myleukemiateam.com. --136.56.165.118 (talk) 05:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

No. Mustard gas#Development of the first chemotherapy drug says it was trialled in 1942, and eventually (when?) entered clinical use as chlormethine.  Card Zero  (talk) 17:24, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

According to History of Radiation Therapy Technology, radiotherapy was first used on a leukemia patient in 1903. Alansplodge (talk) 18:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

According to Chlormethine § History the effect of mustard gas on bone marrow and white blood cells had been known since the First World War. Further chemical and biological research led in 1935 to the discovery of a related family of chemicals with nitrogen substituting for sulfur was discovered – the "nitrogen mustards" and the synthesis of chlormethine. World War II research led to clinical trials for use in chemotherapy. The research could only be published in 1946. There is no contradiction, but the path leading from the chemical weapon of WWI to the drug that became available after WWII is not straight.  --Lambiam 18:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

In The Waltons episode The Gift, Jason's best friend Seth was stricken with leukemia and had only a year to live. They mentioned there was no cure and did not mention treatments. 86.130.15.246 (talk) 22:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

November 25

USPS tracking number

Last week I ordered a small item on ebay and the seller (through ebay) sent me a tracking link that forwards to a usps.com tracking page. The message said the item should show up in tracking within a few hours, but that was 4 or 5 days ago and it's still not there. The tracking number is 31 digits starting "00040106..." which doesn't look like a USPS tracking number to me. I think I have seen 4010... tracking numbers before, but don't remember where. USPS ones seem to usually start with 9 though maybe not always.

Anyway it seems like too many digits. USPS, UPS, DHL, and Fedex don't recognize the number, with or without the leading 0's removed. Does anyone have any idea? Ebay makes it quite difficult to contact the seller since I checked out as "guest" rather than logging in. It wants me to either create an account to contact the seller (I don't want to do that since I already have an account) or log into my existing one (I can't for now, because of computer issues that aren't relevant here). So I'm asking for any wisdom about either ebay or about tracking number formats.

I do know that some shippers are doing a thing where they send the package by DHL to a post office near the recipient, and USPS brings it to the person's door. That might be the case with this package. It has become quite expensive to send small items by normal USPS methods.

Thanks -- 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00 (talk) 20:41, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't know that Wikipedia can be of much specific help here, but you might try putting your tracking number into a "global tracker" that runs the search through multiple carriers. I often use 17track (can't link to it) for tracking international orders into Canada. It's also possible that your seller (or eBay itself) created a shipping label and tracking number for the item but the seller hasn't actually shipped it yet. You probably will have to contact the seller to resolve this, which means you probably will have to create a throwaway account if you don't want to use your existing account. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I tried 17track and it said something about Pitney Bowes creating the label. Yeah it's probably not shipped yet. I am reluctant to make a throwaway ebay account because the guest checkout had my name/address/cc# which match the ones in my existing account, and the two accounts might trigger their security alerts. I can't login to my normal account right now because the computer I use for that is broken and I have to fix or replace it. If the thing is simply pending shipping, it's no big deal. It's a $4 computer part and I can just buy another one locally for now, and maybe eventually have a spare. I was sort of hoping for an answer like "4010... is a tracking number for XYZ and it means [whatever]" but that would have been too good. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00 (talk) 21:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

The way it works is the seller prints a label and a tracking number is created. It does not mean that the item has shipped. It may never ship. It only means a label was created. For small sellers, it is expected that they make a shipping trip once a week. So a few days wait is normal. It will register shipped when actually shipped. If the seller is in a foreign country, the item won't show as shipped until it is in the domestic shipping system. I've had packages from China get a tracking number right after I ordered, but aren't listed as shipped for months because it apparently was sent through a bulk service by boat that waits for a container to be full until it is loaded on a ship and then has to get unloaded and sorted before showing up in the shipping system. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 01:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

So a slow boat from China, rather than to it, literally. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

November 26

Aviation: Who designed these 2 liveries?

Kuwait Airways' current livery applied on an Airbus A330-800neo

MEA's 2008-2021 livery applied on an Airbus A330-200

Hello. Who are the designers behind Kuwait Airways' current livery and MEA's livery from 2008 to 2021? I had researched but I could not find any answer. The closest leads were a newsroom article that celebrated the delivery of MEA's first Airbus A330 and a Kuwait Times article that celebrated the delivery of Kuwait Airways' first Boeing 777-300ER. Both of the articles mentioned that the delivered airplanes were the first ones of the 2 airlines with the aforementioned liveries; however, the articles did not reveal the designer(s)/design agency behind the liveries. I would appreciate if someone did the research and/or knew the designers.FSlolhehe (talk) 21:47, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

References

November 27

Race and ethnicity

Why most Eastern European countries collect data on race and ethnicity but most Western European countries do not? And of Western European countries, why however UK and Ireland collect such data, despite having similar immigrant populations to rest of Western Europe? Which is the reason for that? --40bus (talk) 20:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Do they? Nanonic (talk) 20:09, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

What's the basis of your premise? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I have wondered that in recent times. I find odd that UK and Ireland collect, whereas other Western European countries do not? --40bus (talk) 06:07, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

What's the basis of your claim? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:53, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

The French Republic is officially colorblind making collection of data on "race" and "ethnicity" (whatever those might mean) essentially impossible and in many contexts illegal. I've heard, but cannot confirm, that this is in large part due to the sorry history of the use of certain ethnic data during the second world war. 2A01:E0A:CBA:BC60:78A5:3BD8:C150:36D (talk) 14:32, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I would have thought it has a lot more to do with the principle of laïcité. See Secularism in France. --Viennese Waltz 14:40, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

However, census data was used by the Nazis to identify Jewish people in Germany and occupied European countries including France; see The dark side of census collections. Alansplodge (talk) 22:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

In 1941, french social security numbers had an extra digit added 1 and 2 [depending on sex] designate French citizens including Jews, 3 and 4 “Natives of Algeria and all French subject colonies, with the exception of Jews”, 5 and 6 “Indigenous Jews French subjects », 7 and 8 “foreigners including Jews”. Not our finest hour. 78.244.166.180 (talk) 00:47, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

From a European perspective, I'd guess the whole concept of "race" feels a bit fuzzy. There might also be historical reasons. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:39, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

In the UK, race and ethnicity data is collected by institutions in order to demonstrate that the services they provide are available to, or used by, customers of varying origins in proportion to the incidence of those origins in the general population (or the target need's population). It is driven by anti-discrimination legislation. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 18:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Reliable sources

Is the NRA (National Rifle Association) considered a reliable source for firearm topics? They issue a magazine that I get and was wondering if they could be used. If you have any questions or need more information just let me know. User Page Talk Contributions Sheriff U3 20:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The best place to ask this question is at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard.  --Lambiam 14:46, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok thank you for your answer. I will ask there then. User Page Talk Contributions Sheriff U3 20:41, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

November 28

Clock questions

1. Does 12-hour clock have a written numeric form in any of continental European countries? Does it have a written numeric form in Finnish, Polish, Italian and Swedish, for example?
2. How do English speakers say leading zero of times such as 01:15?
3. Why does English not use word "clock" in expressions of time? Why is it not "Clock is five" but "It is five"? --40bus (talk) 06:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

2. Usually we do not when the context is clear, and if it isn't we would usually add ". . . a.m." or ". . . in the morning." In some contexts (for example, in relation to a train or similar timetable) we might say "Oh-one fifteen"; "Zero-one fifteen" would be understood but is not usual. In a militarily related context "One-fifteen Zulu" might be used (my father, a retired soldier, sometimes uses this convention when talking to me).

3. We do. The usual expression is "It is five o'clock"; "It's five" is also used in hasty or informal conversation when the context is clear. However, this only applies to 'on the hour' times; we normally say "It's five-thirty" or "It's half-past five, for example. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 07:15, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

To clarify o'clock is an abbreviation for "of the clock", used in English since the 15th-century. Alansplodge (talk) 22:20, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

3. The expression is not "Clock is five" for the same reason one does not say "Thermometer is 40 degrees". The measuring instrument is not the measurement. One can say, "The clock shows five in the morning."^[3]  --Lambiam 14:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Although not "it's 40 o'thermometer".  Card Zero  (talk) 17:17, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Although some say "40 degrees on the mercury", like this for example. Alansplodge (talk) 23:04, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

For the same reason, there's no such thing as a hot or cold temperature. Temperature is a pure number with no attributes. What's hot or cold is the thing you're measuring. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

That's a matter of opinion. And temperature has units rather than being a pure number. --142.112.149.206 (talk) 23:28, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Correction noted. But it's still wrong to refer to a hot or cold temperature. We can talk of temperatures being high or low, but not hot or cold. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 10:55, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

December 2

Viktor Yanukovych overthrown by the US?

Both John Mearscheimer and Jeffrey Sachs have said that Viktor Yanukovych was overthtrown by the US. I browsed the Viktor Yanukovych article and a few related articles, but I could not see any support for this. Did I miss something? Star Lord - 星爵 (talk) 15:26, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

They can say what they like. Wikipedia articles are based on WP:Reliable sources. Are there any reliable sourcces that say this? Shantavira|^{feed me} 19:14, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Had I found any reliable sources, I would not have had to ask here.

I would like to add that both of them usually have good and reliable references in the books I have read, but neither of them have written any books written about this. Star Lord - 星爵 (talk) 19:45, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Who are those guys? Are they pro-Russia? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:17, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

John Mearsheimer (presumably), Jeffrey Sachs. --Wrongfilter (talk) 19:47, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I have corrected the spelling to John Mearscheimer, Star Lord - 星爵 (talk) 20:06, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Sachs Star Lord - 星爵 (talk) 19:48, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

If it was done secretly, we wouldn't have access to reliable sources, now would we? Clarityfiend (talk) 01:16, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

It depends on how reliable you consider Putin to be. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:29, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Putin is not mentioned. Star Lord - 星爵 (talk) 08:54, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Now that I look back, they don't mention "secretly". I have corrected this. Star Lord - 星爵 (talk) 08:52, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

So, one of them had better write a book about it, so I can get some reliable source. I have read several reliable sources that ChatGPT claims to support the thesis with good references, but I find the conclusion to weak to entertain. They mostly seem to focus on individual US representtives supporting the demonstrators in Kiev in 2014, and discussion whom they preferred as a successor ,which indeed they did, but which seems a to me not to be enough for the full accusation. Star Lord - 星爵 (talk) 11:52, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

In his 2014 essay "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault: The Liberal Delusions That Provoked Putin", Mearsheimer wrote,

Although the full extent of U.S. involvement has not yet come to light, it is clear that Washington backed the coup. Nuland and Republican Senator John McCain participated in antigovernment demonstrations, and Geoffrey Pyatt, the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, proclaimed after Yanukovych's toppling that it was "a day for the history books." As a leaked telephone recording revealed, Nuland had advocated regime change and wanted the Ukrainian politician Arseniy Yatsenyuk to become prime minister in the new government, which he did. No wonder Russians of all persuasions think the West played a role in Yanukovych's ouster.^[4]

This does not (IMO) fit the qualification of a claim of Yanukovych being overthrown by the US, but at best being overthrown with approval by the West and moral support from some US politicians. What are the sources that claim that Mearsheimer claimed something substantially stronger than the quoted passage? What do they state, exactly?  --Lambiam 16:25, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

It's funny to see McCain being characterized as a "liberal". Maybe the author is the one who's deluded. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:47, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

December 3

Etiquette

Normally, when you need to pass gas in a public place, you excuse yourself and exit the room. What if you're somewhere where you can't leave spontaneously, like halfway during an interview? TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 03:18, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Then you just don't. If you have incontinence of flatus see a doctor. Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:06, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Plan ahead. Arrive early. Use the restroom. Check yourself in the mirror. Use the restroom again just in case. Clean your teeth. Fix your hair. Check all your buttons and zippers. Then, start the interview. Overall, it looks much better than being the guy who comes running in at the last second. But, if you have to fart and absolutely cannot help it, you simply do it and politely appologize. Nobody is perfect. Giving a common fault to interviewers is better than letting them dig for weird faults. In the end, it makes you memorable. Nobody will forget the guy who let a big one rip in the middle of an interview. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 16:45, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Snooker

In snooker, what is "a shot to nothing"? 205.239.40.3 (talk) 11:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

It's somewhat subjective, but essentially it's a pot taken on with safety in mind: an attempted pot which, if missed, will leave no easy pot for one's opponent. It's quite common at the start of frames, when a player breaks off and leaves a long red to a corner pocket. Instead of committing fully to the pot, the player could play it in such a way that the cue ball will return to the baulk end and be left safe behind the baulk colours. It's defined at Glossary of cue sports terms#S under "shot for nothing", its alternative name. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 11:24, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I have never heard ""shot for nothing". John Virgo and pals, on the BBC, always say "shot to nothing". 205.239.40.3 (talk) 11:28, 3 December 2024 (UTC)