Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2007 October 23

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October 23

Sleep Mode

I have a HP slimline desktop. Whenever i place the computer in sleep mode it will go into sleep mode, however after about a second after it has entered that mode it turns back on. i try again and the same issue happens. I am wondering if anyone has any tips. i know that nothing is moving like a mouse, keyboard etc.. that would turn it back on from sleep unless i wanted it on.--logger 04:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Assuming Windows (since others tend to specify their OS): Open the Device Manager, go into the properties for every USB device on the system, and turn off "Allow this device to wake the computer" in the Power Management tab. Might want to try that for some other devices as well, such as the network card. My ASUS motherboard suffers from this issue with USB devices. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:23, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Allright ill do that thanks for the help.--logger 04:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

It was the Network card that did the trick. thank you.--logger 04:52, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, you should try Hibernate instead of Sleep. I like it because the only thing that wakes it up is pressing the power button. Man It's So Loud In Here 22:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

One cause of this prob can be if you're online (and, if you have DSL, you always are). A packet of data comes over the Internet periodically, just to check that the connection is still there, and this can "wake up" the computer. StuRat 16:41, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Computer Security Cost/Benefit

A question not really sufficiently advanced for the Mathematics section, and I don't think there is a forum for economics. I saw a good graph once of the cost of a vulnerability vs. the cost of mitigating it - both were linear and one rising, one descending. I'm not sure what the axes represented to translate cost into lines. Then you divided one by the other so they got a hyperbole in between them. The tangent at the lowest point of the hyperbole would then represent the ideal total cost to spend with acceptable risk. Sort of a break even between known risks and paying for security. Has anyone seen this and perhaps a little more about estimating the numbers? This looks like a good model for communicating between techs and economists. --Wpks 08:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The graph that you saw was most likely not a plot of real data. In general, the more measures taken to protect a system, the more it costs and the fewer modes there are to compromise the system. Given that vulnerabilities, when exploited, leads to loss (monetary or otherwise), and that fewer vulnerabilities leads to lower costs caused by their exploitation, you would expect that the optimal choice lies somewhere between the extremes. That's generally true and hardly surprising. In practice, there are difficulties with estimating those cost numbers. For one thing, some costs are not monetary and may not be quantifiable in a way that everyone would agree is correct. For another, reliable data may not be available for loss events that rarely or has never occurred. You may have some statistics, but there may be great uncertainty about how reliable a conclusion you can make. In computer security, the threat sources of greatest concern are not random — the adversary is adaptive and learning. Before a vulnerability is publicized, historical loss due to its exploitation is zero. After its publication, you suddenly have a wave of attack trying to exploit the vulnerability.

The point of the graph you described is that there's a point beyond which the net return on investment is negative, but that's something the economists already know. --64.236.170.228 13:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Why are you asking this on the Computing reference desk?

Economists are notorious for producing graphs like that with no numbers on the axes and vague definitions of what the parameters mean. All the graph conveys is the rather obvious fact that there is a trade-off between the size of your risk and the cost of mitigating it - so (of course) there is some point where spending more in mitigation doesn't cut your risk enough to be worthwhile (well, duh!). Nobody has numbers because it depends on too many other things. What is "vulnerability" anyway? A proper scientist would say it is some combination of the probability of a bad thing happening and the cost if that thing does in fact happen - it's not one number, it's two independent numbers - so you can't just give it a name and stick it on one axis of a graph. Economists love to use scientific-looking graphs - but they hate to be tied down to specifics because then it would become obvious that what they do isn't a science at all. Take a look at our article on Supply and demand for example...have you ever seen so many unlabelled axes in all your life?! They even had to come up with a new name ("Econometrics") for "Economics with actual numbers". Bah! SteveBaker 13:38, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Uhm... Okay. Thanks for sharing anyways. --Wpks 19:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Choosing a right video card!

Hi, My system config is 1) INTEL original 965 Ryd Motherboard of 833Mhz FSB. 2) DDR2 SDRAM (Transcend) 1GB of 667MHz FSB. 3) On Board video card, 256 MB shared(not needed) 4) Intel Pentium D(dual core) 3.00GHz (4 MB L2 Cache) of 833 MHz FSB. 5) Graphics card slots, PCe,PCe Express(1x,16X) 5) 160GB Seagate HDD of 7200 RPM

At present I can't play 3D games of current age.What type of (model,any brand) graphics card would I require if I want to play games like DOOM3, Half life,Oblivion, fear, etc with full\good resolution around (60 fps)?. To my playing style,I don't need higher fps say 125 or 150.A max of 60 fps seems more than fine for playing. So I put a limitation to fps of 60,not more than, so that I can play games at maximum graphics,resolution. My prob is, what type of video card is ok so that my config(CPU,motherboard) will utilize the card max.How much memory for video card maybe required?.My budget is around some US$ 250..I have seen many cards for this price,but don't know how it'll suit my config.

After upgrading with such card, will my pc outperform Playstaion2?..Becasue instead of investing 250$ in card, I could just buy PS2 for 140$.Any experts,anybody plz help me...Also if there exists any other site in which I can get more suggestions esp about buying graphics card, please do mention..Thanks in advance.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Balan rajan (talk • contribs) 08:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

$250 USD? Wow, that's heaps. A 8600GTS would cost around $150 (from some website), while a 8800GTS would cost around $300... So I really don't know. As for the PS2 question, I think my crap 8500GT (under $100) could beat that... See PS2 article. --wj32 ^{talk | contribs} 09:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

For $250, you should be able to get something pretty good. I would recommend finding a reasonable nVidia card for under $150 (look for an 8000 series card) - the 8800 card is better than the 8600 (especially at higher screen resolutions) - but I wouldn't pay twice as much to get it. I took a quick look on eBay - and I saw an 8600GTS (sadly, just sold) for $108 "Buy It Now" - so shop around! The resulting system would certainly easily outperform a PS-2, and with your 3GHz CPU, it would beat a PS-3 in some sorts of test. But it's hard to compare a general-purpose machine like a PC with something that's specialised for a particular role like a game console - it's just not an "apples and apples" comparison. The games you list should run fine on your system once you've upgraded the graphics. Make sure you put the card into the 16x PCIexpress slot - don't use the 1x PCIe slot for graphics! SteveBaker 13:24, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh thanks steve, hope I find a right card..I have a bet upon beating the power and graphics of PS2 by upgrading my PC,with my pal.I may look for 8600 GTS\8800 series under 200$ then, so you mean its a mere waste of money in spending 250$ for buying a graphics card while I can get the best throughput under 150$?.Anyhow my purpose is not to beat ps2\ps3, but I need a good gaming with resolution of 1024 by 768 pixels of 60fps.Thats all!, Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Balan rajan (talk • contribs) 04:59, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

This article (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/09/05/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/) may be exactly what you need to help you decide.

MediaWiki config problem

Hi! Sorry if I posted it here (I should have asked the guys at MediaWiki for this...) I'm having some trouble with my wiki; I configured it in the same way as my other wiki, but the following error shows up:

Fatal error: Call to a member function selectRow() on a non-object in /www/110mb.com/s/t/r/a/w/b/e/r/strawberrylandwiki/htdocs/wiki/includes/User.php on line 752

Can someone help me with this problem?

EDIT: OK, I already found the problem; it was some glitch with the SQL database... Blake Gripling 09:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

What was the glitch? can you tell us what you did to fix it please.

nvidia-settings: Auto Detect button disabled

In nvidia-settings (with Coolbits enabled), the Auto Detect button on the Clock Frequencies page is disabled even if I select the "3D Clock Frequencies" item from the list. How can I enable the button? I have a GeForce 8500GT. --wj32 ^{talk | contribs} 09:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Did you download ntune from nvidia? Installing that made all my overclocking options appear. Sandman30s 19:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not using Windows... --wj32 ^{talk | contribs} 06:56, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Image Virus

Recently I got a virus through MSN Messenger ... there was a message frm one of my contacts which asked me to open a pic (it was a zipped file) ... i realized it was a virus but by then, it was too late and now its already uploaded on my laptop ... this is one of the many image virus ... can u tell me any way to get rid of it ... ???

Thanks a lot for ur help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.17.38.10 (talk) 10:06, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Try one of the many free Antivirus software programs, such as Avast or Antivir. I believe Trend Micro has a site that will do a basic scan from their website, using an ActiveX control. --LarryMac | Talk 12:40, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The image is only the means that the virus got into your computer. The virus itself should be killable using whatever anti-virus solution you already have. Deleting the image and (definitely) not emailing it to anyone else would be a smart move - but it won't get rid of the virus. You should look for an update that patches this vulnerability because it's very easy to get caught out this way. SteveBaker 12:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

utorrent "Add Peer"

On utorrent, when you add a peer (right click in peer tab, "Add Peer"), what does this do? I've tried it but can see no difference in speed or look when I do. Thank you xxx Hyper Girl 10:57, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

See peer exchange. Lanfear's Bane | t 11:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, that has nothing to do with it. The "peers" are the people that you are downloading from and uploading to. You get a list of peers from mainly three sources, the tracker, peer exchange (where you swap lists of peers with peers you already have) and decentralized tracking (which gets a list of peers from a decentralized network). However, if you know that some dude at a specific IP address has the file you want, you can also add that dude manually, using "add peer". However, there is virtually never any need to do this, so this is a feature you can safely ignore. --Oskar 15:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Yep oskar is right, this is to manually add a peer. I can think of how this could be useful (possibly a for-pay ultra seeder that dark-seeds every file on a private tracker?) but it's basically never used --ffroth 21:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Is my 'gamma' wrong?

The new ref desk colours look 'right' when I view on a LCD screen way off the optimum viewing angle - eg if I tilt the screen back about 60degrees.. Problem is that everything else under these conditions looks like it's 'been kept for the last 50 years in a wood fired tar factory staffed by heavy smokers' ..

Is this effect intentional.?87.102.17.104 12:50, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't look that way to me, if that is what you are asking. --24.147.86.187 13:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes - the colors are pale. So, you appear to be expecting bold colors for the title bars. If you expect to see "barely-noticeable-off-white-tint" colors in the title bars, they will be normal. -- kainaw™ 13:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Programming for Symbian

Hello to all wikipedians!i want some help on this. in which language i can write mobile software for symbian os.becoz dont know about programming.so which language will be suitable for beginer.also tell me there is a tool with the help of which i make mobile software by wazards.THANX.........USMAN —Preceding unsigned comment added by Star33 2009 (talk • contribs) 15:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

added header --LarryMac | Talk 15:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

• This page says you can use Java, C++, Perl, Python, Ruby, and a few others. You will probably save yourself frustration by learning how to program in general before trying to program in this specialized environment. --Sean 16:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Our article on the Symbian OS says: All of this makes Symbian OS's flavor of C++ very specialised. However, many Symbian OS devices can also be programmed in OPL, Python, Visual Basic, Simkin, and Perl – together with the Java ME and PersonalJava flavors of Java.. For a beginner, probably Java would be the best choice...but it depends what you are trying to write. Personally, I think you should start to learn to program in Java on a regular PC before getting into the ikkyness that you're likely to encounter in programming a PDA. If you are asking whether there is a 'wizard' that would write the software for you - then no, that is most unlikely - you'll need to learn to program. Expect that to take you many months of study and LOTS of practice. SteveBaker 16:21, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to agree with that. Some universities have their computer science students start on Java, and I think it's a good idea. Java is good for learning C, but at the same time, Java handles a lot of stuff automatically, so it's not as hard as C, imo. And once you learn Java, you'll be able to jump into C and other programming languages much more easily. Mobile devices often run Java software as well, so that's a plus. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 22:28, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Windows Vista question

Both my work computer and my father's new home computer run Windows Vista. My work computer has Vista Business, my father has Vista Home Premium. My work computer has a better processor and more memory than my father's computer. Everything is otherwise OK, but for some reason, I can't get my work computer to show all that Aero eye candy. It's stuck in XP look-alike mode. What is funny is that it doesn't seem to notice this itself - the Taskbar Properties window shows the taskbar image in all its Aero flashy goodness, but the actual taskbar still looks like XP. JIP | Talk 17:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I know a few common things that will do this. Pirated versions of Vista, bad/old graphics drivers, not having 'Vista Aero' selected in the appearance properties, or not having the effects enabled in the two 'performance' window thing (in System, I think). -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 17:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I didn't install the OS. It was a hand-me-down from a former employee who had recently quit his job. But the company takes great pride in its Microsoft partnership so I hardly think it's pirated. Where do I find this "appearance properties" you speak of? I did find the "performance" window thing in System, selected "optimise for best appearance" and ticked every single feature available, but nothing changed. JIP | Talk 17:52, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Another cause is old software which doesn't like Aero (can't think of any current triggers that I know of. during the Public Beta, iTunes used to trigger it). So if you've got any particularly old software (or pretty much anything not certified for Vista) constantly running, try closing it temporarily and see does it help. - ^Estoy_Aquí^{(t • c • e)} 18:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I only ever run Microsoft Outlook (the world's worst email program, but that's the company standard), Visual Studio 2005, two web browsers (MSIE and FireFox) and a task/issue management system called "Requeste" on it. The company's flagship product is a vastly complicated MS Windows application suite but so far I have managed to avoid even touching it, I work solely on the web-based projects for its support. Maybe it's this "Requeste" thing that's holding it back then? JIP | Talk 18:29, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I like outlook 2007. I'm a sucker for pretty programs :[ --ffroth 23:50, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Not me. I'm frequently told by my mentor "Make it look pretty." What do I know what's pretty? If he told me "Make it work" then I would be all set. JIP | Talk 19:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I love the command line, and I love pretty graphical programs- but I can't tolerate ugly graphical programs. It's really that important- I will not use the software if it's hideous and unintuitive. I refuse to use openoffice, and I refuse to use emacs. I put up with a lot of crap from windows to have the best-looking OS around and I won't have ugly progams messing it up :/ --ffroth 20:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe you only get the Aero stuff if you have a really good "DX10-capable" graphics card. It's not to do with CPU or RAM. SteveBaker 00:25, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Then I guess I'm out of luck. My work computer apparently has an Intel 3xx or something graphics card. I really don't know very much about graphics cards, but I'm guessing both my own and my father's home computers have better graphics cards. My father's home computer gets Aero in all its full flashy glory. My own home computer is 100% Linux only. JIP | Talk 19:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

No, AFAIK, you can always force Vista to show Aero even if it doesn't think you system can take it (at the expense of performance of course). The only exception is when there's software incompatibilities. - ^Estoy_Aquí^{(t • c • e)} 11:53, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

When you say the taskbar looks like XP, I assume you mean the grey 'classic' taskbar and not the big goofy blue and green XP taskbar? It sounds like you have either the Windows Classic or Windows Standard visual style selected. Go to Start > Control Panel > 'Change the color scheme' (under Appearance and Personalization) and select Windows Aero. (By the way, the Taskbar Properties window will always have a picture of the Aero taskbar whether you're using Aero or not - it's not just your machine being peculiar.) — Matt Eason ^{(Talk • Contribs)} 12:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's a boring grey taskbar, none of that black and blue and green stuff. So far I haven't been able to find such a setting as "Change the colour scheme" but I shall keep on trying. JIP | Talk 19:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

If your Control Panel is set to Classic View, double-click Personalization and select Window Color and Appearance — Matt Eason ^{(Talk • Contribs)} 22:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I tried this, and found out that there is no "Windows Aero" setting in the Window Colour and Appearance settings. There is "Windows Standard", "Windows Classic", and four high contrast settings. JIP | Talk 15:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Badly damaged VGA connector

A friend of mine yanked off the monitor plug from its female connector on a desktop PC with Asrock motherboard leaving it in forgettable state. The connector is an integrated block consisting of two PS/2 ports for keyboard and mouse. Is this block replaceable? If it is, need it be soldered on to the motherboard? Thanks for any advice. Woeisme 17:53, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes - you'll need to de-solder the remants of the old connector and solder a new one on there. If you are really unlucky, the 'yank' might have damaged the circuit board itself - in which case you may be in deeper trouble. It might actually be a lot easier (although less pretty) to leave the 'integrated block' in place and just solder wires to the handful of connections that go to the monitor connector to a new connector dangling outside of your case. It won't be as pretty - but it'll be a LOT easier to do and will avoid the risk of also wrecking the PS/2 ports. If you aren't good with a soldering iron - you're doomed. SteveBaker 15:05, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

• • Thanks, Steve. This is the damaged board.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=P4i45GV%20R3.0&s=478 It has an extra VGA port. Can this be used to connect the monitor? But there is no VGA card installed currently. More importantly, the broken connector has left 15 copper wire ends exposed which might contact one another or surrounding area. If I switch on the system with them exposed, will it create problems like short circuit etc? I don't know if I can find somebody with enough soldering skill to try to fix it. If you can clear my doubts asked above, I would be greatly thankful. Regards Woeisme 17:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

According to the spec sheet here, that motherboard only has one VGA port (it's exceedingly rare for on-board graphics chips to support multiple video outputs) - I think what you are looking at is the DB9 connector for the serial port (which looks kinda similar - but most certainly isn't!).

A nice close-up photo of the broken connector sure would help a lot in offering advice at this point! You should make sure that those loose wire ends are not touching each other - in which case there is probably no harm to be done by turning the computer on (not that this will help you if you don't have any video output). Personally, I'd say that the crappy Intel graphics chip on the motherboard is a piece of junk anyway. I'd go out on eBay and buy the cheapest used nVidia "GeForce" graphics board that money can buy. Even an ancient GeForce-4 or something would be better than the chip you have now (Intel graphics chips suck, suck, suckity-SUCK!) - and those things probably show up on eBay for less money than a replacement connector for your system will cost. Get your friend to pay half! Good luck! SteveBaker 18:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I rather like SteveBaker's idea. Unsoldering stuff on a modern, multi-layer PC board can be tricky, especially from those VGA pins that are connected to the inner ground planes (because they may sink a lot of heat from your soldering iron before reaching solder-melting temperature). Hot glue can then be used to stabilize the stub pins and wires so no shorts occur. If you *DO* try to desolder the existing connector, break it all apart first, leaving just the metal pins protruding from the circuit board and then use your iron to heat the pins, one at a time. Clearing the PC board hole afterwards will also be a problem; a vacuum desoldering tool may work but melting the solder and then forcing a wooden toothpick through the hole is another viable approach. here in the industry, we often use a hot plate to locally pre-heat the entire circuit board, inner power and ground planes and all, but it's still tough work.

Atlant 12:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Yep - I love the idea of using a hot-glue gun to stabilise those dangly connections - I was thinking of electrical tape - but your idea is much better! The CAPA plastic that glue guns uses is a good insulator. The reason not to break up the connector and trim the wires down to a couple of millimeters is that I'm pretty sure that's the same lump of plastic that contains the keyboard and mouse connectors - and our OP shouldn't make matters worse by hacking around at those if they still work. SteveBaker 15:19, 26 October 2007 (UTC)