Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2014 February 8

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February 8

Trashing Old Laptops

I have two old laptops to get rid of. Neither works well enough to donate to charity so I'll be dumping them.

Is there anything I can/should do before trashing them to get all the data off their hard drives?

They both run some version of Windows. AndyJones (talk) 19:24, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Do you mean

1. wipe the disk, so that anyone who finds the laptop can't get any of your personal data off it, or
2. back up the data, incase there is something important on it?

For 1), there are a number of disk-wiping programs out there, here's a list [1] CS Miller (talk) 19:53, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Do you just want to wipe them (that is, you've already backed up the data)? If they still can be booted, wipe them with something like (good but massively paranoid) DBAN. If they don't work well enough to boot from a CD, remove the drives and physically destroy the drive platters (e.g. with a punch). -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 19:55, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I would go with Finlay McWalte's advice. Although Dban comes with the necessary legal clause that it carries “No guarantee that data is removed” that is just the authors being cautious to avoid silly litigation. Dban will make you data unrecoverable.

Because it has to overwrite everything on your drive don't expect it to do this instantly. I suggest you invoke it late at night and then go to bed. Then, you won't be on tenter-hooks wondering “when is it ever going to finish”. To make your data unrecoverable (even to the NSA) it has to overwrite the whole drive several times and that can take hours depending on the size of the drive. But what the hell – it does it automatically. Just go to sleep while it does its work. Microsoft doesn’t have anything as secure as Dban. --Aspro (talk) 23:06, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

If that sounds difficult here is a Youtube tutorial: [2]. If you are just selling the laptop on, 3 round should be sufficient. If you're Edward Snowden's twin brother then go for one of the higher security levels--Aspro (talk) 00:01, 9 February 2014 (UTC).

I'd said one pass of 0s is enough for almost everyone. Cost of recovering information from a 0'd out HDD, by a forensics team, is way above some thousands of dollars. It's not as if you pass a tool and the data is there again. When you analyze such a HDD, you end up with unconnected strings here and there and try to recompose them. Just imagine it's all paper, and you pass a huge amount of paper by a cross-cut shredder. The thing is a mess, but a dedicated group of people could still recover it, and it has been done before, but it requires hours and hours of work. Obviously, your average internet paranoid might disagree, but so far, I have never heard of anyone claiming that they could recover information from a HDD overwritten with whatever. Physically bending the HDD seem tough to deal with too. (Note: a simple delete is a complete different scenario). OsmanRF34 (talk) 01:53, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

OsmanRF34 is right. Armies of women have been employed to piece together shredder documents but if you are the average John Doe (Joe Blogs), that effort and cost is not going to be applied to your data. One overwrite should be more than sufficient to put beyond the reach of the criminal element. If however, you run Dban overnight, then you might as well ask it to to do 3 overwrites for complete peace of mind. If on the other-hand you have a laptop that contains privilege information that foreign powers (or jealous wives) might like to discover, then use Dban's higher levels (but in that case, you really should be using an encrypted drive anyway and know about these things). --Aspro (talk) 03:07, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Recovering an overwritten HD is very difficult and as others have said, you're probably pretty safe with something like DBAN. More problematic is a situation where the hard drive itself has failed, so you can't spin it up to run DBAN, but at the same time someone with the right tools could possibly repair it and conduct data recovery. Hard drives are pretty small so you could just remove them from the laptops and stash them someplace, while getting rid of the laptops themselves. 70.36.142.114 (talk) 02:01, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

• User:AndyJones, others have addressed your question, but please do not just throw laptops in the "trash" -- laptops are hazardous waste, our article Electronic waste outlines some of the dangers. Please find out how they are properly disposed of in your local community, they should not go to a landfill. Feel free to ask here if you cannot find how to safely dispose of your laptops in your location. (You may already know all this, but I prefer to err on the side of caution :) SemanticMantis (talk) 16:54, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Just wanted to point out that recovering data from an overwritten hard disk (whether with random data, a zero fill, a 1 fill or whatever) isn't just difficult, it may very well be impossible with current technology. See previous posts by me, I think BenRG and others. No one has ever come up with any evidence of anyone doing it in practice, and the evidence for whether it's even theoretically possible is mixed. Of course you need to actually overwrite the data. In other words, this doesn't apply to anything which isn't overwritten like reallocated sectors, parts of the HD not overwritten e.g. because the capacity was limited with manufacturer tools after it was used, or if you simply abandon overwritting the HD or add new data after it was overwritten (yes I'm thinking of the Manning case). We don't know what capabilities intelligence agencies have so if you're worried about that, you may still want to be concerned (but as others have said you likely also have a whole host of other worries in that case). But even if it's a serious criminal matter, since so far no one has found any evidence of it ever being done in any criminal trial yet, there's a good chance you won't be the first. Nil Einne (talk) 12:09, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Also I realised I forgot to mention, but in light of what I said above, about how a single pass is probably enough but you do have to make sure you actually overwrite everything, you should consider using your HD's built in ATA secure erase function [3] [4] [5] in the first instance. You can use DBAN later if you want, but rather than worrying about multiple passes which probably achieves nothing it's likely more worthwhile making sure you do actually erase/overwrite everything since if you fail to at least something may be recoverable probably for a few thousand dollars via any number of commercial services. Nil Einne (talk) 14:06, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Forcing Google Maps photodots.

The last few days (at least), Google Maps is just showing me Street View blue when I grab my Pegman. If I want pictures, I need to click the Photos option. That sucks for various reasons, but it's not important. Is there a way to force my browser to cooperate the old way? Not talking about signing a petition or throwing bricks or asking Google (that time it cleared up on its own after a week or so). Is there some cybermagic I can type into the URL bar to trick the beast? A Greasemonkey deal, even? InedibleHulk (talk) 20:22, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't happy with the recent changes to Google Maps either, and asked my own Q about it here: Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Computing/2014_January_25#Is_there_a_light_version_of_Google_Maps_.3F. The answer included a way to set it to "Classic Mode", which might fix your problem, too. StuRat (talk) 04:53, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, but no. I already avoid the new version purely for fearing the future's sake. Good to know I have a rational reason now. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:12, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Did Google.ru do the rainbow doodle with red orange yellow green blue violet?

75.75.42.89 (talk) 20:40, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 20:43, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Microsoft Safety Scanner vs. Windows Defender

Does Microsoft Safety Scanner do anything that Windows Defender doesn't? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 22:49, 8 February 2014 (UTC)