Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2009 June 28

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June 28

Michael Jackson's children

They appear to have no traces of black African ancestry. Surely they are not his actual biological children? He must have used a sperm donor or something.--Bored of the world (talk) 15:55, 28 June 2009 (UTC) (Removed text that has BLP ramifications: even though the man is now dead, his children are living.) // BL \\ (talk) 16:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Please read Race (classification of human beings) for discussions of why observations like yours are not taken seriously at the Reference Desk. It is a long article, but most of it is a worthwhile read. Tempshill (talk) 17:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

It is a perfectly reasonable question, and your attitude to the poster is patronising and fails to assume good faith. You may be jumping to conclusions that there is some element of racism behind the question , but IMHO such suspicions are excessively touchy and just unreasonable. Postlebury (talk) 19:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with each of your three claims about my answer, and would point out that I referred BL to an article on the subject rather than blowing him off. My answer was unimpeachable here, sir or madam. Tempshill (talk) 21:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

In the first place, it wasn't BL you were referring to the article, it was the OP. And in the second place, the article you linked to doesn't do what you say it does. The introduction to the article contains careful formulations like "many scientists..." and "some argue...", which rightly go to show that there is no consensus on this subject, neither in the scientific community nor, a fortiori, on this Ref Desk. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Apologies for misreading BL, and I shouldn't overstep by speaking for the whole Reference Desk. Racial-difference questions must be the #1 category for trolls here, and I didn't WP:AGF, because AGF falls down right around the vicinity of this type of question. Tempshill (talk) 16:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering about the same thing. This doesn't acctualy have to be about Jackson and his kids - just how can black parent have white kids ? Skin tone is geneticly inherited, if their mother is white (I don't know, if she is) they should have lighter skin tone than their father's relatives, but not as white as their father's, which is said to be caused by skin disorder, which they couldn't have inherited (even if it is posible I doubt it would make them fully white at so early age) and they all can't be albinos (and don't appear to be). I don't see what is wrong with making such observation, an article on race should summerize general knowledge, instead of discussing such extreme cases, I don't feel like reading it all just to find out it doesn't really tell anything 95.68.96.65 (talk) 08:49, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

There are many genes that contribute to skin colour, and we get a mix of them from both parents. Sort of like a Punnett square with loads of genes at once. Depending on the mix the parents have (which will depend on the mix they got from their parents, from their parents, etc. back however many generations) the children can end up with a mix that gives them lighter, darker or similar skin-colour compared to their parents. This can come up when parents who consider themselves 'mixed race' have children that look 'white' or 'black', sometimes even twins with dramatically different skin tones to each other. 89.168.19.118 (talk) 15:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

In relation to this question... Are you claiming that Michael Jackson is part white and only his white genes contributed to the color of his children's skin? This is a question specifically about the probability (and possibility) of a man as dark skinned as Michael Jackson having multiple children as light-skinned (and fair haired) as his children. -- kainaw™ 15:45, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I was specifically answering 95's understanding of how skin colour is inherited. It is entirely possible for any 'black' person to have some pale-skin genes, and for any 'white' person to have some dark-skin genes, all of this being confused by the specific cultural meanings of calling someone 'black', 'white', 'mixed race', whatever. Skin-colour inheritance is not as simple as the children having some average of their parent's skin tone, which seemed to be 95's understanding. For example, there have been cases (google them for the news stories) of one black and one white parent having twins, one of whom was 'white' and one of whom was 'black'. 89.168.19.118 (talk) 17:52, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Debbie Rowe is white and she said Jackson is not the biological father of their children (and also that she doesn't want anything to do with them now that he's dead...nice). No one knows who Blanket's mother is, or if Jackson is his biological father. So if they don't look like him, it shouldn't be any surprise. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

If You Want to Add More to the Plot Area of the Article on the telenovela Valeria

If you want to add on to the plot of Valeria, you can if you want to. Ericthebrainiac (talk) 17:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

This is a reference desk for answering questions, not a place to advertise your favorite Wikipedia article and hope that editors will improve it. See WikiProjects for that sort of initiative. Tempshill (talk) 17:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

What does perma-crocked mean?

To whom it may concern,

I would just like to know what does the word perma-crocked mean. It has been mentioned by football reporters on the internet probably referring to football players who are injury prone. If you search for the word 'perma-crocked' on the search engine results will come from soccer websites like goal.com. Please can someone elaborate the meaning of this word, its driving me insane for not knowing its meaning. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.49.42.136 (talk) 18:29, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

perma-crocked. Algebraist 18:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Not a cheeseburger.

Is there some cultural reference or set phrase in America about cheeseburgers and cannibalism? I only ask because I've encountered what seemed like odd phrases in two separate programmes, and it seems like they might share a common reference.

In Supernatural: Dean: Ronald. Hey, come on, man. We were pals. Ronald: That was when I was breathing. Now I'm gonna eat you alive. Dean: Well, but I'm not a cheeseburger. Obviously, this seemed really odd. There are in-story reasons the character might be failing at quipping at that moment, but still... No cheeseburgers otherwise featured in the episode, nor last time they met.

In Ugly Betty: “Well, I’m not a cheeseburger, so I know you’re not gonna eat me.” (Character being threatened by Betty)

So, are these referencing something? I can't find anything online, but I might just be using ignorant search terms :P 89.168.19.118 (talk) 18:56, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Not that I'm aware of. It could be that the writers of one show stole "recycled" it. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm, thanks. I'd wondered about the "recycling" idea, but it seemed such a non sequitor if it isn't referencing something. Plus, the first show it appeared in (Supernatural) doesn't seem like the sort of thing that the Ugly Betty crowd would watch, and it isn't watched enough for general cultural osmosis. 89.168.19.118 (talk) 15:20, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

All it really means is that one of the writers heard a cheeseburger joke at some point in the past and used it. There doesn't have to be anything more to it. -- kainaw™ 15:39, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

"Cheeseburger" is more clever than using plain "hamburger". Substitute another food and it's not nearly as to the point. "I'm not Lasagna" "I'm not a turkey wrap" "Im not a salad"? Yeah, not as funny. --70.167.58.6 (talk) 15:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

There are numerous comedic references to The Towering Inferno (1974) in The Simpsons and elsewhere. In one romantic interlude, Faye Dunaway is coming on to Paul Newman and says, "It's my lunch hour." He responds, "I'm not a cheeseburger." This is a clip of the scene. Pepso2 (talk) 20:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Yay! Thank you Pepso2! That works perfectly, and now makes much more sense! :D :D :D So many exclamation marks! I've never seen the film, only gathered some of the plot from references elsewhere, so I'd never have got this :) I can now rest happy, knowing that my reference-sense is still functional and that these scenes were less nonsensical. Thank you! 89.168.19.118 (talk) 23:24, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I can think of less allusive uses of 'cheeseburger' as generic food. Lolcat: "I can haz cheeseburger?" Less famously: about thirty years ago a radio advertisement for miniature golf listed its advantages over other sports such as kung fu, including: "People who play kung fu have to live in a monastery and eat roots and berries. People who play Putt-Putt™ Golf live at home and eat cheeseburgers." —Tamfang (talk) 17:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget the recurring Saturday Night Live skit. Clarityfiend (talk) 18:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)