Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2011 February 4

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February 4

Jeff Pomerantz

Hi,

I have used Wikipedia on many occasions and I happen to take a look for a friend of mine Jeff Pomerantz. I remember seeing a page on him in the past; he seems to have been removed. I believe he was an actor and has been involved in some great humanitarian projects.

Is this an error? I don't know where to look. I do know that he had been acting some time back on a series for "The Young and the Restless".

Could you help me on this? Thanks.

My email address is [redacted] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.118.127.124 (talk) 03:48, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

There indeed was a page at Jeff_Pomerantz, but it was deleted because someone thought your friend wasn't notable enough for an article. See Wikipedia:Notability for our guidelines about this article. Staecker (talk) 04:17, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone recognize this?

The name of the piece played here. 85.250.159.149 (talk) 12:27, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

It's Schubert's Marche Militaire number 1. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 12:31, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

High number of musicians killed in plane crashes

Has anyone ever done a study on the extraordinarily high number of musicians who have been killed in plane crashes? Offhand I can name Buddy Holly, the Big Bopper, Richie Valens, Otis Redding, Patsy Cline, three members of Lynard Skynard, Kyu Sakamoto, Ricky Nelson, Paul Jeffries (Cockney Rebel's bassist), John Denver. I wonder if there's an explanation for this phenomenon?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:56, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

There are a lot of musicians...and it's likely that a lot of musicians travel by plane quite often. You've named several musicians, but haven't presented evidence that it's a 'high' number compared to others that fly on similar planes with similar frequency. --Onorem♠Dil 17:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

In the old days, because contractual obligations compelled them to travel long distances, as quickly as possible, when safety checks were perfunctory. Dion turned down the offer to join the flight being used to take Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and The Big Bopper to their next tour date, because he decided that he could not afford the $36 flight cost; this was the same monthly rent his parents paid for his childhood apartment and he couldn't justify the indulgence - see "The Day the Music Died". Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

The weather was very bad when Buddy Holly's plane crashed, which could also be a factor seeing as musicians have to be at gigs on certain dates regardless of flying conditions. I only named the musicians that popped into my head; I'm sure there are others that I've overlooked.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

It's most likely confirmation bias. Again, you haven't provided any evidence that musicians die in plane crashes at a higher rate than anyone else, corrected for frequency of flights and type of planes involved. For all we know they may die exactly as often as the population at large in such crashes. Without any data, there's no need to believe anything except the Null hypothesis. --Jayron32 19:04, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

No question about it. The starting point should be an examination of the number of private plan crashes in America, and I bet the number is startling - and mostly non-notables. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Should Holly, Bopper, and Valens really count individually? Yes, three musicians died but it was only one accident. They happened to need to travel together for the same reasons. In the end, I'm with Jayron and the confirmation bias. You haven't shown that musicians die any more or less often than Fuller Brush men. No article? Dismas|^(talk) 19:58, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

It's not musicians that are the issue, it's small planes. Many famous (and not famous) people have died in small-plane crashes, especially when weather was bad. JFK Jr comes to mind immediately. Several sports figures: Knute Rockne, Tony Lema, Rocky Marciano, Thurmond Munson. Then entertainers, including Will Rogers. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:20, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Another problem is that the names of musicians who die get reported in the media, because the journalists have heard of them, and hope that it creates a hook for their readers/listeners/viewers too. Logically enough, the names of people you have never heard of are reported far less often. HiLo48 (talk) 22:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Don't forget Stevie Ray Vaughan. Oops, helicopter crash. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:33, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I imagine Jeanne would include any crashable aircraft in the scope of her question. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 01:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I am personally aware of a number of ordinary citizens who died in private plan crashes, most in bad weather, and reported only locally because they were not "notable" figures, and definitely not musicians. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:21, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I now recall that following the Lynard Skynard crash in 1977, an American rock music periodical did a piece on the number of musicians who die in plane crashes; I believe the article was entitled The Buddy Holly Curse. The journalist was of the same opinion as GHmyrtle in that a grueling tour schedule often means that a band must find any available charter plane to get to the next gig, and these planes are sometimes in poor condition, with outdated components, and the pilot might not even be qualified. Jim Croce was another musician who was killed in a plane crash, and yes, I had overlooked Stevie Ray Vaughan.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:55, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

If you look at List of deaths in rock and roll (an increasingly redundant article in my view, now that R&R as a genre has been going for some 60 years), most of the plane crash deaths are in the earlier years. One who hasn't been mentioned is Randy Rhoads - another example of someone persuaded to take a flight against their better judgement. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:15, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm the only man here old enough to think of Glenn Miller in this context. His case is susceptible to all of the explanations offered above, with the added one that his plane disappeared in a war zone. --Antiquary (talk) 11:03, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

No Antiquary, you're not alone in thinking of Glenn Miller. I wasn't around when he disappeared, but my mum reminded me often enough, and his music was big in my house as a young kid. I assume you're aware of the myriad conspiracy theories surrounding his death. (There's even a brothel story!) He is apparently officially still missing in action. HiLo48 (talk) 11:19, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

There was also Jim Reeves and Aaliyah; and in the classical field, we have pianist William Kapell, soprano Grace Moore, conductors Guido Cantelli and Eduardo Mata, and violinists Jacques Thibaud and Ginette Neveu. Probably others. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 12:24, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Let me summarize what's been said and add some thoughts of my own:

1) Yes, a higher percentage of musicians probably died in plane crashes than the general population.

2) Though, probably not more than that portion of the population which regularly travels in single engine planes, during bad weather, as often as musicians do.

3) The percentage of musicians dying in plane crashes has probably declined recently, due to improved airplane safety and reliance on other forms of transportation, like tour buses. StuRat (talk) 01:19, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Payne Stewart is another non-musician who died in a small plane crash, or technically died before it crashed. There's obvious skewing due to the fact that the average citizen does not have the kinds of resources that professional musicians and athletes do. There are also politicians. I can think of several who died in plane crashes, including Wellstone and Carnahan (sp?). Then there's the 1961 U.S. Figure Skating national team, all of whom perished in a plane crash on their way to the world championships. And there have been fatal bus accidents also. But at least you're closer to the ground. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

My point about tour buses isn't that they are necessarily safer, just that using them instead of planes reduces the number of airplane deaths. StuRat (talk) 15:18, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The Rolling Stones solved the problem by using their own jet complete with logo.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:25, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

That didn't help Payne Stewart. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:26, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe the Stones' plane was a Lear jet, anyroad, it wasn't a small plane, which is always dodgy even in the best flying conditions.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Off topic, but 1.3 million workers in the US who are in the General aviation business disagree with your flippant last comment. Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC)