Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2014 October 16

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October 16

Maximizing the Babe

Could Babe Ruth have pitched one day, played in the outfield for the next few games, and then repeated the cycle? Did he just want to stop pitching and concentrate on hitting? Was/is there a rule against it? Clarityfiend (talk) 07:29, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

No rule against it that I know of. Before the days of the Designated hitter (1973) I suspect it would have happened relatively often. HiLo48 (talk) 07:33, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Not only could he, he did exactly that for a few years. In every season from 1915-1919 (all four full years for the Red Sox) he both pitched some and played some in the field. In the earlier years, his appearances in the field were infrequent (in 1915 he had 32 games on the mound and another 10 appearances where he didn't pitch) but by 1919, he was working as an every-day player who pitched once a week as well. There's some argument to be made that, for two years (1918-1919) he may have been the most complete overall player in the history of baseball; in 1918 he pitched 2 games, winning both, in the Red Sox World Series championship, as well has having a respectable 2.22 ERA and a 13-7 record; probably good enough for a second-third starter on most modern teams, and in 1919 he was the best batter in the AL leading the league in home runs and RBIs, while still appearing 15 times as a starting pitcher. AFAIK, he is the only player in history to lead the league in both ERA (1.75 in 1917) and home runs (numerous times). You can check out his stats at baseball reference.com where you can see in 1919 he played 111 games in the outfield and pitched in 17 games, probably the year he came the closest to doing exactly what the OP is asking about. --Jayron32 12:04, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

(ec) He was used as a two-way player, as you describe, by the Boston Red Sox in 1918 and 1919. The first year, he started 19 games as a pitcher, 46 in left field, 13 at first base and 11 in center field; in 1919 it was LF-106, P-15, 1B-5. He had been a full-time pitcher until 1917, and became a full-time outfielder starting in 1920, with only a handful of appearances as a pitcher afterwards. Stats here: [1]. Here is what Ruth said in a 1918 interview: "I don’t think a man can pitch in his regular turn, and play every other game at some other position, and keep that pace year after year,” Ruth said. “I can do it this season all right, and not feel it, for I am young and strong and don’t mind the work. But I wouldn’t guarantee to do it for many seasons." [2] Once he was sold to the New York Yankees, Ruth insisted on playing the field full-time, which is what General Manager Ed Barrow wanted as well. There was no rule against moving around between positions, and there isn't any today either. --Xuxl (talk) 12:11, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I believe Bill James has commented to the effect that, Ruth's switch to the field was very well timed as that era was where the total value of a position player began to surpass that of a top pitcher. In fact, Ruth's position shift may have even accelerated that effect, removing a top pitcher and inserting an unbelievable batter. Matt Deres (talk) 15:36, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Now for a bonus question: who was the next best pitcher/position player? Clarityfiend (talk) 08:01, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

There haven't been that many two-way players, and most were from a long time ago. I'll submit a few names: Cy Seymour in 1898 went 25-19 on the mound and hit .276, playing a lot of games in the outfield; he eventually became a full-time outfielder, and a very good one too. Guy Hecker in 1886 went 26-23 as a pitcher and led the American Association with a .341 average, playing first base and the outfield when he wasn't pitching. He was a two-way player most of his career, although primarily used as pitcher. In 1886 Bob Caruthers went 30-14 as a pitcher and hit .334 and led the A.A. in OPS; he also played the outfield when he wasn't pitching and was mainly a position player the last couple of years of his career. All three of those men played decades before Babe Ruth, and he was an anomaly in his time. No one has matched his feats since, and very few players have split time between the mound and the field since. A recent (and unique) example is Brooks Kieschnick, who started off as an outfielder, then began pitching in the minors to keep his career alive, and spent the 2003 season as a pitcher/outfielder with the Milwaukee Brewers. He hit .300 (in only 70 at-bats) and went 1-1, 5.26 in 42 games as a pitcher; he did start a few games at DH and in left field, but all his pitching appearances were in relief. It's just almost impossible to be good enough at two such different sets of skills to be able to be both a serviceable major league hitter and pitcher. A lot of players do both in college, where the level of competition is much lower, but when they turn pro, they specialize in only one area. If things don't work out, they may decide to try to make a go at their other specialty. --Xuxl (talk) 09:57, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

There was also the recent case of Rick Ankiel; I don't know that he ever had one major league season where he played both outfield and pitcher, but he did transition successfully from the mound to the outfield; our article notes that he may be the first person since Babe Ruth to be as successful at both as he was. --Jayron32 10:40, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Ankiel never played both positions in the same season. Lots of players have transitioned from position player to pitcher, but very few, like Ankiel, did it the other way around. --Xuxl (talk) 17:25, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Uncle Sam Mario

Is the blue and red striped Mario in Super Smash Bros. 3DS and WiiU supposed to look like Uncle Sam, or is the costume from something else?PlasmaDragon001 (talk) 17:11, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

The costume appears to be the same as the one he wore in the NES Open Tournament Golf game or whatever. Interestingly, the article Mario states that he was named after Mario Segale, warehouse landlord of Nintendo of America, so he's always been American because America. ~Helicopter Llama~ 17:19, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

(EC)This page says "Red, White and Blue: This patriotic design is what he wore in NES Open Tournament Golf." [3]. Failing to think of any other large rich nation that uses red,white,blue and stars to designate patriotism, I think it's fair to say this is some sort of "All American" Mario costume, though it needn't be specifically based on Uncle Sam. If you look into the history, it looks like there may have been different versions of Golf in USA and Japan. It's not clear to me that the USA suit was in both versions. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:22, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Maybe he was trying to look like another All-American (but also Italian) monster smasher who was also big in Japan, Madusa Miceli. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:20, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Lol, or vice versa. The NES OTG came out in 1987, and at that time Madusa seems to have been making $5 a match (in obscurity). Did she wear an outfit like her truck as a wrestler? SemanticMantis (talk) 21:40, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Mamma Mia! She was all about the stars and stripes outfits, but those came around 1990, in Japan. In 1987, she usually wore white, but not an obscure shade. She was the top woman in the American Wrestling Association, which was on ESPN at the time. She was already "Madusa" (Made in the USA), so maybe wore something like that a few times. Moot point, anyway, since we know Mario has a time machine. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:38, 18 October 2014 (UTC)