Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2021 April 20

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April 20

stock music in MPHG

The above question about Scooby-Doo and The Dukes of Hazzard triggers something I've been wondering about. I understand that in Monty Python and the Holy Grail there was little budget for music, so heavy use was made of an existing stock music collection. I am quite fond of a fanfare that's heard several times; how might one find out about its origin? (Hear it beginning at 0:25 here.) —Tamfang (talk) 02:03, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

It's "Homeward Bound" from De Wolfe Music, written by Jan Stoeckart (under the pseudonym Jack Trombey). See this playlist: https://music.youtube.com/browse/MPREb_MPAU50HDxoP Prevalence 10:02, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Hm, the bit used begins somewhat after the middle of the source track. Interesting. —Tamfang (talk) 01:52, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Besides library (or stock) music, there is also music in the public domain which is very cheap to use (you only need to pay performance royalties, not publishing royalties); for example the troupe used the Liberty Bell March as the theme for Flying Circus, a work that was in the public domain at the time (IIRC, I'm not exactly up on mid-20th-century copyright terms). --Jayron32 12:49, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Although I believe the theme was credited to the Band of the Grenadier Guards, so I expect there were some royalties to pay. Alansplodge (talk) 18:24, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the performance royalties. Every recording of a piece of music has two separate copyrights; the music copyright and the performance copyright. As the music is in the public domain, but the performance is not, royalties would still need to be paid to the performers of the music in question. You could also pay a group of musicians to perform the music anew, but that's often more expensive than using an existing piece of music. --Jayron32 12:05, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Elusive CD catalogue number

I'm trying to find the catalogue number for a CD released in 2008 by Lyla Foy, entitled Insects & Apples. It was a very small scale release on a tiny label called Iffy Records in the UK. The album is not mentioned in our article about her, nor is it listed on Discogs, however there is a tracklisting here.

She released a single at around the same time on the same label with the catalogue number IFFYLF01, so I suspect it might be IFFYLF02 or something similar. I've tried all sorts on Google and the Wayback Machine, but I'm stumped. The artist herself is on Twitter, but this period of her career appears to have been removed from her official history (she now performs in quite a different style), so I don't think approaching her would be much good. Any ideas? Thanks, Turner Street (talk) 14:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

The label has a contact information page here. Perhaps emailing them directly would be the best approach. --Jayron32 14:17, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

@Jayron32: Thanks, but that's a different label, Iffy Folk Records not Iffy Records. I don't think Iffy released much else other than these two Lyla Foy CDs. Turner Street (talk) 15:52, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Ah. Sorry then. I'd still contact them because maybe they are related in some way? I can't find ANY other record of ANY label named "Iffy". At least it's a possible lead. The worst they can do is ignore you, or say "sorry, no idea". You're no worse off for the minimal effort put into crafting a short email. --Jayron32 16:48, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Are you sure they aren't the same company? The tracklisting you linked to lists the genre as "Folk/Pop" and this label listing on the same site gives the Sea Kings as another band on the label. Guess what band is listed on Iffy Folk's website as one of their artists? http://www.iffyfolkrecords.com/artists --Khajidha (talk) 18:41, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

You can use contacts on her page: https://www.lylafoy.co.uk/contact 97.82.165.112 (talk) 19:06, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

He's already said there's no point in contacting her or her management. --Viennese Waltz 19:31, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry. I thought he said no point in contacting her. Those contacts don't look like her. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 19:55, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for answers everyone. Iffy Records and Iffy Folk Records are definitely two different labels, despite that Dutch website conflating them. Iffy was a London-based label (see here) while Iffy Folk is based in Glasgow and only began releasing music in 2011. I have discovered that Iffy was run by musician and svengali Yak Bondy, and he is on Facebook, so I will see if I can send him a message on there. I don't think the artist or her management want anything to do with these releases as they are never mentioned in any official biographies - her 2014 album Mirrors the Sky is always cited as her debut. Cheers, Turner Street (talk) 08:13, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

It's possible that Iffy Records didn't assign it a catalogue number, particularly if the label was, at that point, essentially a 'kitchen table' operation (the company was only incorporated on 8 April 2008) and/or the CD was intended as a one-off exercise, trial or demo, not initially intended for sale. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.219.35.136 (talk) 09:07, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

In support of that, I have multiple tapes and CDs that look like official releases, but don't have catalog numbers. It was common to get them at concerts in Hollywood. Bands would hand them out to get people to get closer to the stage. Sometimes they would have multiple bands on a disk to get you interested in other concerts by bands under the same management. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 11:49, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

The album was evidentially released on iTunes [1] [2] so I don't think it was simply a demo. This doesn't of course definitely mean it has a catalogue number. (Well I don't know what iTunes requires.) @Turner Street: have you tried contacting the reviewer Helen? [3]? I know it was a very long time ago, but perhaps they still have records or the album and would be willing to help. Nil Einne (talk) 18:20, 25 April 2021 (UTC)