Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 June 25

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June 25

U of arkansas damascene etching 1937

value of etching #74 of the U of arkansas done by reed and barton silversmith.****

Sorry I can't understand your question. Can you explain in a bit more detail?martianlostinspace 09:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

A Reed & Barton damascene etching of the University of Michigan recently was sold on eBay Canada for about US$50.[1] If your etching is similar and in good condition, you might expect comparable value. Since it is a collectible, its value is ultimately what some collector may want to put down in order to possess it.  --Lambiam^Talk 12:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Psycho-psychohistory

I'm particularly interested in a very obscure and recent field of knowledge called psycho-history; however it isn't the traditional psychohistory described in the Wikipedia article, but a branch of Jungian psychology having its origins in Jung's book Aion, the basic idea of which is that the symbolism, structure, and patterns that we see in literature and myth and dreams (and to a large degree in our personal lives) can also be detected in history.

Jung spoke of this in interviews - for instance noting the similarities between the white star of the Americans and the red star of the Russians, and what the different colors symbolize; Edward Edinger touched on it briefly in a few of his books, for instance in The Bible and the Psyche when he discussed the similarities between colonial America and ancient Israel, and supposedly Toynbee writes of it somewhere. My question is, has anyone read any books or do they know of any books that they can recommend that deal with this? That would be utterly wonderful. MelancholyDanish 08:28, 25 June 2007 (UTC)MelancholyDanish

I believe the works of the mythologist Joseph Campbell would be rich pickings for a study such as this. -- JackofOz 12:07, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Some branches of semiotics are rather similar. Claude Levi-Strauss's structuralism/semiotics is based in anthropology, and so pertains to material culture production. It's a very small hop over to history from there. I do not know if anyone has made that hop, but it was ready to be made. If you can understand semioticians, then all the better. If you can't, just start putting algebra in the middle of your writing. Utgard Loki 15:17, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

The Golden Bough springs immediately to mind, go for the 12-volume edition if you can. DuncanHill 21:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Decipherment claim of Indus script & Wikipedia article

In Malayalam Wikipedia a discussion is going on regarding the reliability of Winters as a source. Do his decipherment claim qualify to be mentioned in an article on Indus Valley Civilization? Somebody uploaded this image from one of Winters's pages on his Geocities web space. The image is still seen in the article. Do you think that that image which ventures to claim IV script with Brahmi script and vai signs is a plausible addition to the English Wikipedia article Indus script? Thanks. Snusha 10:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the usual criterion for notability should be used: have others than Winters independently reported on his claim in reliable sources? If so, it can be mentioned as reported on by others. If there are different assessments of the merits of the claim, these different views should be duly represented with appropriate weights.  --Lambiam^Talk 13:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I have done some quick web searches, and I strongly doubt the reliability of Winters's claims regarding the Indus Valley script. According to his biography, his training was in anthropology and history, not linguistics. My understanding is that the Indus script is nearly impossible to decipher, given the shortness of the inscriptions, the number of glyphs in the corpus of inscriptions, and the complete lack of any bilingual exemplars. It is hard to imagine that a person without linguistic training could succeed where many trained linguists have failed. To my eye, Winters's proposed values for the glyphs are highly speculative and without any clear basis. Winters does not currently have an academic appointment, but instead seems to be employed teaching prisoners. Not that there is anything wrong with teaching prisoners, but if his linguistic breakthrough were recognized and accepted by scholars (which it apparently is not), he would surely have the opportunity for an academic post, which would provide a more secure financial basis for his research. Furthermore, Winters's record of publication is as an Afrocentrist, an intellectual standpoint in which scholarly rigor is often subordinated to a political agenda. I see little evidence that any of Winters's work has been subjected to peer review, a crucial basis for judging the reliability of any research. Therefore, I think that there are many reasons to doubt Winters's reliability and few reasons to accept it. Marco polo 15:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

We give a list of decipherment claims here. Winters is the first in a long string of perfectly worthless attempts, which may be listed as a curiosity, but certainly not as actual scholarship. The only attempt that received some encouragment from peer reviewers is Rao's -- but here also it was only his basic method that was accepted as sound in principle, and his claims are no less pie-in-the-sky, he just looks good compared to the staggeringly pathetic cranks that stand beside him. As you see, the discussion here is not about "valid" or "invalid", but a scale from merely "fanciful" to "the mind boggles"  :) dab (𒁳) 07:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Reasons for collapse of the Doha development round

The Doha round has not had any significant results for some time, with the latest collapse in Potsdam. Ideological commentary is widely available, with about ten accusations per actual number presented. Those few numbers seem horribly taken out of context such as Indian Commerce Minister Kamal Nath saying that the US was unwilling to promise more than a 50% increase in agricultural support. I would like to form my own opinion about this matter, but finding a serious quantitative analysis of such a sensitive matter on the Internet is not easy.

Could someone on this desk suggest some reading for this subject? It seems that more economists are in the "pro-trade"-camp, so I do not mind a slight bias, if that is the price for quantitative information.

Thanks in advance - Søren 130.225.96.2 11:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

You want a little 'light reading', Søren, well here you are:

• Agriculture in the Doha Round by Niel Andrew et al, 2005.
• Doha Round of International Trade Negotiations: Arduous Issues and Strategic Responses by Dilip K. Das, 2005.
• The Doha Round and Financial Services Negotiations by Sydney J. Key, 2002.
• The WTO and the Doha Round: The Changing Face of World Trade by Ross P. Buckley, 2003.
• The European Union and the WTO Doha Round by Gabriele Trondl and Rainer Hoffman, 2007.
• Reforming Agricultural Trade for Developing Countries: Key Issues for a Pro-Development Outcome of the Doha Round Negotiations: volume 1 (Trade and Development) by Alex F. McCalla and John Nash, 2006.
• After Doha: The Changing Attitudes and Ideas of the New WTO Round by Terence P. Stewart, 2002.
• At the Crossroads: The World Trading System and the Doha Round by Stefan Griller, 2004.
• Liberalizing Agricultural Trade: Issues and Options for the Middle East and North Africa in the Doha Development Round by Merlinda Ingco, 2006.
• Agreeing and Implementing the Doha Round of the WTO by by Harold Hohmann, 2007 (forthcoming).

Enjoy! Clio the Muse 00:38, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

If you would like something a bit shorter, I recommend some of the reports here on potential economic and distributional effects. I also like the several reports by members of the Institute for International Economics, which go into the political issues at stake in the negotiations. If you want to read the head of the WTO trying to put a brave face on the recent failure, see here. If you find a consensus on the economic data, please come back and help out the Doha Development Round article, which largely appears to be a list of political spats. - BanyanTree 02:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Algiers

Hi for S+E in school I have to do a report on the Climate of Algiers (in Algeria) but at the moment I can find no proper in depth information, does any one know a good website on the Climate of Algiers, because at the moment I'm stumped. Thanks! --Chris ^g 12:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Our article on Algeria has section on climate from which you can deduce something about the climate of Algiers. If you do a Google search for climate + algeria, you immediately get many relevant hits.  --Lambiam^Talk 13:13, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

You can find relevant statistics here. Marco polo 14:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, there is the excellent, readable book Physical Geography by Tom L. McKnight. Since I noticed you live in Perth (from your user page), it is in the Cambridge Library. And I even checked, and yes, it's available. How's that for service? The Mad Echidna 23:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Where does it say I live in perth just because I live in Australia and I'm part of wikiproject perth doesn't mean I live in perth (But i do live in perth) Thanks! --Chris ^g 10:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Literature request

Greetings. I'm a history student, and I'll be doing a BA thesis next year on the 1769 rinderpest outbreak around Antwerp. While the deadline is still months away, I'm doing some preliminary reading to gather some ideas and inspiration. I was hoping you guys would be able to recommend me some books on the following subjects:
- The impact of crises / diseases on the political structure and economy of a society. If I could find anything on how different outbreaks affected the relationship between central and local administrations, for instance, that'd be grand.
- Other than dr. Spinage very comprehensive tome [2], is there any other standard work about the disease worth looking at?
- More specifically, a book on 18th-century outbreaks would be neat.
- As would be a good book on the economy of the 18th-century Austrian Netherlands, with a specific focus on agriculture. Or a book on the daily life of farmers or the poor downtrodden masses of that period.

Any other books you might think of that are (tangentially) related to the subject would also be very much appreciated. Much obliged. Random Nonsense 15:04, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

You may be interested in Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond. You can get a good feel for the book's content on the article page (I think it would fit well for your first subpoint above), so I'll just go on record to say that the book is immensely well written and a breeze to read. Matt Deres 20:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Guns, Germs, and Steel also by Diamond would also be of interest. DuncanHill 21:12, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I would agree, and both those books are on my bookshelves already. :) They're indeed the right subject, but the scale is a bit massive. 'Collapse' is about, well, collapse - I'm more wondering about milder outbreaks, that stress but don't overwhelm a society. But thanks for the advice... Random Nonsense 21:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Guns, Germs and Steel has 27 pages of suggested further reading..... DuncanHill 23:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Dear Random, what you're asking about is at once more specific and more particular than anything I can think of. I would imagine that there are articles that would cover the material, and there may be dozens of agricultural histories from which you would draw, but the essence of the analysis will be to be new. If you look into responses to previous outbreaks of Hoof and mouth disease, you may see some of the state and folk reactions, and, of course, the economic effects will be drastic near the epicenter and, like a wave, barely perceptible in the major markets. I wish I could think of titles that covered cattle diseases and the waves of displacement that have occurred when those diseases have proven resistant. Mass slaughters and quarantines are a sad part of the agricultural cycle. Geogre 01:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I have couple of suggestions that may be of some use to you:

• A Manufactured Plague: The History of Foot-and-Mouth Disease in Britain by Abagail Woods, 2004.
• Animals, Disease and Human Society:Human-Animal Relations and the Rise of Veterinary Science by Joanna Swabe.
• The Bovine Scourge: Meat, Tuberculosis and Public Health, 1850-1914 by Kier Waddington, 2006.

This is a dimension of history that is well outside my area of expertise, so I am not able to offer any meaningful comment. I only know the above monographs by title alone. On your wider topic I assume you are familiar with J. A. Van Houtte's An Economic History of the Low Countries, 800-1800 and Core and Periphery in Late Medieval Urban Societies (Studies in urban social, economic and political history of the Medieval and Modern Low Countries), the collection of papers edited by Myriam Carlier and Anke Greve? Clio the Muse 02:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, those books sounds like they could prove quite useful. I'm afraid I wasn't familiar with those last books - I've been getting most of my history of the Netherlands from Dutch-language sources - but I'll definitely be taking a look at them. Random Nonsense 13:24, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Very tangential, The Greatest Benefit to Mankind: A Medical History of Humanity from Antiquity to the Present by Roy Porter is fascinating reading - apparently measles is a result of rinderpest jumping from dogs or cattle to humans. DuncanHill 13:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Have you done a keyword search for "rinderpest" at amazon.com and at books.google.com? Corvus cornix 15:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, of course, and also at Historical Abstracts and other databases, but I figured a Wikipedian might know which books are particularly interesting or useful. :) Random Nonsense 15:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

History-where should I study?

Hi everybody. I've followed the discussions here for quite a while now, and it's become ever more fascinating. I'm hoping going up to university soon, where I thought I would read politics. But I've so loved the history discussions here, the contributions of Clio the Muse in particular, that I am thinking of changing my mind and studying history instead. My question is which university should I consider for such a study? I am British, but would consider all reasonable suggestions. Serendipityone 15:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Are you applying as a mature student? If not, then you can eliminate universities very quickly simply by deciding which ones A level grades match up to. For sake of this discussion, I'll assume you're willing to travel anywhere within Britain. Would lower tuition fees (ie. Scotland) be an incentive?martianlostinspace 15:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

It just...sort of...depends. What Clio does, for example, and what I do are different. She knows a great deal, and I mean no circumscription on her knowledge, but she generally answers quickly on political history. I stick my nose in whether I know a thing or not, but I like to stick to cultural history. History departments have flavors, if you will, but rarely do they so powerfully emphasize one approach that a good student can't work whatever way she or he desires.

In general, you should look for schools that are strong in the subset that interests you, as well as those that provide a good set of resources. If you are interested in European political history, then that will be different from U.S. economic/labor or cultural history. If you like to mix literature into your history, that will be slightly different than counting production quotas and reading census data. (Don't diss the census: one way or another, it's important to every history.)

Find a book of history that interests you, one that seems exciting, and then simply look up the author. Find out where he or she is teaching. If it's popular history, find out where she went to school by checking the publisher's biography. You can choose your institution based on the personnel, even though you must never go solely for that. (Most of the people I knew who did ended up working with someone else entirely, and some found the hero to be a bit of an ass.)

Look at library holdings. This is absolutely vital for advanced studies. As an undergraduate, it won't matter much. As a graduate student, it is the difference between a dissertation that gets you a job and one that does not. If you're going to have to travel and travel to access primary sources, your degree is going to slow and your abilities will be hampered. The bigger the collection of materials in your field of interest, the more lovely Serendipity can strike unimagined chords in facts and lead you to new insights.

Clio is at a pretty good place (ahem), with a pretty decent collection (to put it mildly). The last factor to consider is geography. If, for example, you're interested in the War of the Spanish Succession, then a school in London might have a curious holding that would be fascinating to examine, but so might one in Dover or Cadiz. In other words, the value of going to the site of the action is that sometimes curiosities can be found in the libraries and archives of the town that you will never have access to again. Yes, everything's going the web. No, don't believe it.

Anyway, my own field is literary history, but that would be my recommendation if I were advising someone on how to pick a Hist. department. Geogre 21:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

For the second time in a fairly short period I have to recommend the University of Cambridge (I would, wouldn't I), on this occasion the Faculty of History, once graced by the likes of Lord Acton, G. M. Trevelyan, Herbert Butterfield, Geoffrey Elton and J. H. Plumb. The Historical Tripos gives a superb grounding in the subject. Be warned, though: it's fairly demanding! But I do agree with Geogre: much depends on your particular area of interest, Serendipityone. Think about it, and if you have any further questions you are welcome to approach me on my talk page. Clio the Muse 01:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Cambridge is, of course, a very good University, but you would, of course, also require good grades. I would assume A's accross all your subjects, especially history. Although I am no historian, some general points, British newspapers often publish league tables by subject, e.g. the Guardian (a bit left wing if you ask me but never mind it's just an example) agrees with Clio for 2006 [3]and the coming year [4]. Putting Cambridge top for history. (this also covers Art history so they are not all relevant). However it should give you some ideas. Most universities will have online prospectus's (prospecti?) which will show the available courses, but also look at their research sections, as the interests of the academics affect the teaching and especially the available projects/disertations. Also I would strongly recommend getting to as many open days as you can manage, as this will give you a feel for the atmosphere of the place, beyond pure academic reasons, and this can be equally important in your enjoyment of University. After all what good is the best teaching if you drop out because your not happy there? Cyta 08:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I got my degree in History at Brigham Young University, and if the no drugs, (extra-marital) sex, and alcohol environment doesn't turn you off, I would recommend it if you're considering studying abroad. The History education you receive is excellent, with a particularly strong emphasis on Historiography and looking at multiple viewpoints. As an added bonus, BYU has one of the strongest language programs in the nation, offering more than 70 foreign languages—a great boon for history majors.

BYU's library has also been rated on the Princeton Review as the best in the US (and it is extremely good—I wrote my senior thesis on Norman identity, and the library had all the obscure books I really needed). Tuition, because it is subsidized, is also extremely low for a private university (particularly one of this caliber). The Jade Knight 23:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

A Commuter

Hello. A lady waits for a bus. She waits at the stop sign, slightly ahead of the bus stop, instead of the bus stop. One day, a bus driver kindly asks her to wait at the bus stop instead of the stop sign, so confusion can be avoided. Why does the lady refuse to obey on the next day? --Mayfare 17:46, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps because, if she signals clearly for the bus to stop, and if you stop for her anyway (you are the driver, aren't you?), it really doesn't matter where she stands. And perhaps because she resents being told to "obey" the word of a bus driver, as well she might. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 20:05, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I am not the bus driver nor the lady. I am a curious student who saw a lady who happens to do this. Look in my earlier post (Proof of Cone and Sphere Surface Areas) for age proof. --Mayfare 20:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

If this isn't a riddle, then there is no way to know without asking the lady herself. Perhaps she is just a crotchety old lady. Adam Bishop 21:09, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps when it is wet, there is a puddle by the bus stop. Perhaps from the stop sign the lady can see her son/husband/friend working in the shop along the road. Perhaps there are cracks in the path and she wants to avoid being eaten by the bears. Who can tell? -- SGBailey 22:09, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

It's definitely the bears, Donald Hosek 00:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The lady is cleary some sort of extreme environmentalist (otherwise she would be driving an SUV like all right-thinking citizens.) She wants to avoid causing the bus to stop twice and thereby waste fuel. -Arch dude 00:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I can take either of two buses that stop at adjacent stops, and wait in the middle watching for the one that arrives first. iames 02:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Sure you claimed before to be in middle school, but how do we know you weren't setting up a cover for your real status as an old lady? —Tamfang 02:59, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps there is a big hole at the bus stop and she might fall down it, or a large animal that might eat her. Maybe she is an elderly and disabled lady and unable to walk very far at all. A taxi drops her off a few yards ahead because a taxi isn't allowed to stop in a bus stop - even just to drop someone off. Maybe she is just being annoying.martianlostinspace 10:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe she doesn't want to take the bus the next day at all.martianlostinspace 10:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Do you have an umbrella? Sounds like an old song "Bus Stop" by The Hollies: [5]. Edison 15:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe she has a lack of faith that the bus driver will stop for her. A bus ignoring you makes a big impression if there aren't many in a day. She expects that the stop sign has more authority than she does.

Polypipe Wrangler 23:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I am trying to find a poem

About 20 years ago, a professor of mine had a poem taped to his door. I have been trying to find it for several years now, and I have not yet had any luck. Does anyone recognize the poem, or can anyone locate it, or can anyone give me advice on how to find it? It was a relatively short poem, perhaps 20 lines or so. It was written in a very sing-songy fashion (much like you would see from Doctor Seuss). There were cute sing-songy rhymes and I believe even some "made up" words to create rhymes. The illustrations surrounding the poem were some type of furry cartoon creatures, also much like you would see from Doctor Seuss. The poem was a cute rhyme, on its face (as if written for a child). But the deeper levels and meanings of the poem were more serious "life lessons" designed for an adult. The poem was about trying to move ahead in the world, and trying to climb the corporate ladder at work and in your societal standing. In fact, the illustrations had the cartoon characters all sort of standing / walking one on top of the other (the first character was walking/stepping on the head of the second character; the second character was walking/stepping on the head of the third character, etc.). The poem went on about how you should be careful of stepping on other's as you try to move up in the world and in your career and in your societal standing. Essentially, it said that you can move up in the world without stepping on other's heads and while still being nice/civil to people around you. Also, another theme was good fortune can change in an instant, so maintain your humility. You may be rich and powerful today, and have the ability to step all over others. But that can all change at the drop of a hat. So treat others as you would like to be treated. I believe that the beginnings of the poem were something like (very crude guesstimates): "The uppers are moving on upwards, while the downers are moving on down. Except on alternate Tuesdays, when it works the other way round" (or something to that effect). I believe that the final line (or the catch line) was something like "You'd be wise if you step gently, as you tread on your neighbor's head." It was a great poem, and I hope I can locate it. Any help is appreciated in locating it, recognizing it, and/or identifying it -- or tips on how I can go about doing so. Thanks. (JosephASpadaro 18:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC))

I have tried every combination I can think of, Joesph, with no success whatsoever. Perhaps it was your professor's own creation? Anyway, I would hate you to think that your request has been completely ignored. Perhaps some other editor will have better luck than I. Clio the Muse 02:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Through your college, try contacting the professor. Edison 04:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you. It was not the professor's own work -- it was merely a photocopy that he taped to his office door. I did contact him (several years ago), and he had long since forgotten about the poem and had no copy or information available. Can you give advice on how to even begin my search? Thanks. (JosephASpadaro 17:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC))

Normally typing in lines, or parts of lines, even if not exact, will throw up some reasonable clues and approximations on google. The lines you have used here uncovered nothing meaningful. I also tried typing in 'poems on ambition', 'poems on ambition and humility' and so on and so forth, but still nothing. Try yourself, using any variation that you like. Who knows? You may strike lucky! Unfortunately, that is what it depends on here, unless someone actually recognises the poem itself. I have a fairly extensive knowledge of poetry, but nothing here sounded in any way familiar. Sorry. Clio the Muse 00:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Just a complete shot in the dark, but could it be part of Dr. Seuss' Oh, the Places You'll Go!? That was first published in 1990, so it's not quite 20 years ago. --LarryMac | Talk 13:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Finding Demographic info on books and movies

I am trying to find out what demographic particular books and movies appeal to, e.g. what were the target demos or most popular demos for Lord Of the Rings books and movies.

Please let me know the best way to find this on your site, I ve tried the search box but it gave me locations unrelated to the titles.

? The J. R. R. Tolkein article is a featured article, so I would start there. Tolkein didn't have a "demographic" in mind for his books, unless you mean The Hobbit. That, alone, was designed by the publisher as a children's book, but it isn't a children's book from the composition. The movies.... You'd need the marketing reports from Fine Line Cinema, or whatever the name of the studio was, and Wikipedia wouldn't carry those. Geogre 21:19, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Tolkien; New Line. The Hobbit sure reads like a children's book, the last time I looked at it. —Tamfang 02:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Fortunately, we have a redirect. I see little or nothing in the vocabulary to make it children's literature. The whole series reads like a young adult novel to me now, but I didn't see a big difference between The Hobbit and the rest, except that there were featured elements that presumably appealed to children. That fits with our article's suggestion that he adapted it to a children's market from a big imagined world. Geogre 11:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Both right. The Hobbit was an adaptation of stories he told his children. The background world he had been working on since the twenties.Czmtzc 15:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The Hobbit did not really belong to the same world as the Silmarillion and Akallabêth, though it borrowed a few names (Elrond, Gondolin) for mere color. Note for example how different in manner the Elves are, and that none of the places that figure in There and Back Again are mentioned in the First or Second Ages. When the publisher asked for a sequel, then JRRT added the Third Age to the older history and made minor changes to The Hobbit for compatibility. —Tamfang 23:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

David Hume -- Sentiment

Hello. David Hume is supposed to have claimed that "it is not contrary to reason to prefer the scratching of my finger to the destruction of the whole world", or some such thing. I've googled all over, but can't seem to locate a reference for this. Any help would be appreciated. Llamabr 20:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

'Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger. 'Tis not contrary to reason for me to choose my total ruin, to prevent the least uneasiness of an *Indian* or person wholly unknown to me.

--Hume, Treatise of Human Nature, Book II, Of the passions, Sect. III, 'Of the influencing motives of the will'

--jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 20:46, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't find it because I had it backward. Thank you. Llamabr 22:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikiquote is a great place to look in the future—the quote is listed there. The Jade Knight 09:40, 28 June 2007 (UTC)