Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 October 9

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October 9

date formats around the world

In the article Calendar date, there is a map (at right) showing which countries use small-endian DD-MM-YYYY style dates (blue), which big-endian YYYY-MM-DD (green), which Usonian MM-DD-YYYY (red), and which are mixed (aqua, purple, black). Unfortunately, a lot of the world is left blank, especially in Africa and the Mideast. If any of you are from a country that's been omitted, could you let us know your country's conventions on the image talk page? Thanks, kwami (talk) 03:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

WP:OR? "Images that constitute original research in any other way are not allowed". --Tagishsimon (talk) 08:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

If the user obtains references for the countries concerned then displaying this information in Image form would not be WP:OR. "This is welcomed because images generally do not propose unpublished ideas or arguments, the core reason behind the NOR policy." -- Q Chris (talk) 08:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

We can discuss on the Talk page how to verify the claims, if the user doesn't provide a ref. Something interesting might turn up. kwami (talk) 08:50, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it is vital that if the image contains un-cited data then this is made clear. The whole image should be tagged "citation needed" and then details of which areas are unverified given later. If you have difficulty obtaining references for many countries then maybe you could use different shadings (e.g. pale variants of the colours) for unverified data. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The article lists the countries, though they might not all be there, or might not all have good refs. (I haven't worked on the article.) kwami (talk) 10:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, why is Canada the only country in black? Did we do something bad? Or *gasp* is the black hole to be created by the Large Hadron Collider going to immigrate here? Clarityfiend (talk) 09:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

It's the only country that uses all three orders. kwami (talk) 10:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

It is? That's news to me (and the reference in Calendar date used to back up the claim is less than convincing). How do you define "use"? Clarityfiend (talk) 11:43, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

It would seem very unlikely that they would use two mutually ambiguous date systems. -- Q Chris (talk) 14:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, at work, the e-mail system uses dd/mm/yyyy, the computer clock uses mm/dd/yy, and the computer program with which we carry out our exciting tasks uses yyyy/mm/dd, so that's one example of all three being used in Canada. Adam Bishop (talk) 14:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

That must be confusing. If you see write the date on a cheque, or put your date of birth on a form would you usually put dd/mm/yyyy, or mm/dd/yyyy or yyyy/mm/dd? -- Q Chris (talk) 14:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I write "October 9, 2008" :) Adam Bishop (talk) 18:13, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I confirm that all three styles are used in Canada. I probably see little-endian most often, followed by "US style", and big-endian least often. Printed forms usually ask for a specific format; if they don't, you can do as Adam says; and if you don't, you risk being misunderstood, that's all. --Anonymous, 2008-10-09, 18:45 UTC.

The map is certainly misleading, as the DD-MM-YYYY style is used extensively in the US; the Wikipedia article on calendar date is absolutely false on this matter. The Papers of Thomas Jefferson published in 1950, for example, tell us that the Declaration of Independence was adopted on 4 July 1776. I doubt if any American readers have ever been confused by that format, or even found it particularly unusual, as it is seen so often. I suspect that the idea that there is a single "US style" date format is a Wikipedia invention. —Kevin Myers 06:19, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Except that that is dd MMMM yyyy. dd/mm/yy would be 04/07/1776 which I imagine many people in the US would find confusing. -- Q Chris (talk) 07:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

We're talking about number-only formats. If you write 04-07-1776 in the US, it will be almost universally read as April 7, not July 4. kwami (talk) 07:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Kevin, although we know what you mean by 4 July 1776, 99.999999999% of Americans do not use this format. I just saw your user page full of dates in this format and I suspect you are a foreign triple agent.  :-) Nricardo (talk) 05:07, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Foiled again! —Kevin Myers 09:38, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

So not only does every single other American besides Kevin use another format, but .997 of Kevin does as well! --ColinFine (talk) 15:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I suppose I don't exist. Count me as another American who prefers a completely unambiguous format. Today is 13 October 2008. Oddly enough, several members of the English department at my high school also use DD MMMM YYYY.

Yeah, all joking aside, DD MMMM YYYY is not exactly common in the US, but I think it is used frequently enough in the US to be familiar to a majority of Americans, even if they don't use it themselves. This format was once widely used in the US military, though I don't know if it still is. —Kevin Myers 13:23, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Broadly speaking, North-east Asian countries will start with the largest category (year), and work down to the smallest. The same is true of locations (country, city). DOR (HK) (talk) 02:48, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Hummanities homework!!

Locate the following places on the world physical map and not the mojor eccosystem associated with each one:Nepal Mongolia South sea Islands Egypt —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kittymaree (talk • contribs) 08:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Gosh that's real power, Lets see, for starters I'd like to locate the South Sea Islands just a short hop away, now that would be really nice. I would much prefer to keep their major ecosystems with them though. ;-) Dmcq (talk) 08:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

ps we're not supposed to answer homework questions on the refdesk, see 'Before you ask a question' at the top for some tips for answering questions yourself. Dmcq (talk) 08:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Homework's getting easier: "Locate the following places on the world physical map and not the mojor eccosystem associated with each one:". We would have had to name the major ecosystems too. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Mojor ecosystem? Is that you, Dr. Evil? Clarityfiend (talk) 09:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

No, not ecosystem; eccosystem. And that's just confusing. --LarryMac | Talk 12:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps ask your English teacher for some extra homework?--Combatir (talk) 13:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

A good bit of general advice for doing homework: Pay attention in class for a few days before it's set. You'll find the teacher generally tells you how to do the homework prior to setting it. --Tango (talk) 13:43, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

This question should be moved to the Hummanities desk. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Or perhaps the WP:Reference Desk/Homework... hmm, now why does that show up as a red link, again? --Alinnisawest,^{Dalek Empress} (extermination requests here) 18:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia has articles Nepal , Mongolia , South Sea Islands , and Egypt which have the information you seek. Edison (talk) 18:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

<removed. Please don't provide false information. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 00:45, 10 October 2008 (UTC)> --98.217.8.46 (talk) 23:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, whatever. Better to learn the hard way that trying to get out of work can lead to unpredictable results! --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok folks, enough is enough. Yes, this kid was trying to get us to do thei hw for them, but given the nature of the question and the spelling mistakes, you all do realize you are making fun of an elementary school student, right? I mean, you're probably pointing out the spellingmistakes of a third grader right now. Hope you're all proud. This thread should have stopped at dmcq's response. --Shaggorama (talk) 19:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I can't find the damn website!

Has anyone here read Thomas Friedman's new book, "Hot, Flat, and Crowded"? Somewhere, early on in the book, he references a website about the origin or history of ideas. I know he does because I own the book, I read it, and I made a mental note to check it out sometime. Well, now I can't find. I skimmed the first half of the book, I searched the book on Amazon, I searched the web for the site. Nothing. Nada. Short of re-reading the book until I bump in to it again, I'm out of ideas. Does anyone have any clue? Pyro19 (talk) 17:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Does History of ideas help? ៛ Bielle (talk) 17:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

No, it definitely wasn't Wikipedia nor was it the external link provided there. Pyro19 (talk) 17:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I found it. It's ideafinder.org. I searched the book on amazon for the term "according". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyro19 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Canterbury Tales

What were some examples of Chaucer's moral judgement of his characters in Canterbury Tales? Thanks, Reywas92^Talk 21:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

According to a member of Monty Python, he didn't like the knight... AnonMoos (talk) 21:50, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The best place to start would be reading the book. Then pay attention in class while discussing the book. Then sit and mull it over for a bit. Then you can do your homework. Good luck! --Tango (talk) 22:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

It is rather a long time since I read any of The Canterbury Tales, and I did not read them all, but what I remember is that on the whole Chaucer, in his narrative, side-steps what we usually mean by moral judgements. For instance, he presents the Monk mostly from the Monk's own point of view. However, I have just taken a look at the General Prologue, and at least one passage there has caught my eye in which Chaucer praises the moral character of one of his characters: "A Knight ther was, and that a worthy man, / That fro the time that he first bigan / To riden out, he loved chivalrye, / Trouthe and honour, freedom and curteisye..." Strawless (talk) 22:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but as AnonMoos points out, it's possible to read Chaucer's praising of the knight as heavily ironic. Algebraist 08:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

There are so many possible answers to this it is probably best to just look over your reading and class notes and do the homework on your own so we don't mislead you. Wrad (talk) 16:49, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

While Terry Jones does have a book about Chaucer's Knight, what he says is not the prevalent belief on the topic among scholars. Most think that the Knight was a paragon of moral virtue for Chaucer. The first fragment, Knight-Cook's Tale, has a clear descending linear progression in morality, although if you read critically you can probably figure out what Chaucer's stance was on each character. This definitely requires an understanding of the time period and culture during which he was writing.69.244.5.221 (talk) 19:05, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Why Asian Women & White men?

Why do many Asian American women like to date and marry white men, but not with black men and brown men? Black men and brown men are sexy and "big", but why many asian american women don't date/marry them? 208.124.207.122 (talk) 22:08, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Ask them. This is a reference desk. I seriously doubt anyone will find a respectable study on this topic. However, if someone does, they will surely give you a link to the reference. If you are simply attempting to get a discussion going, keep in mind that this is a reference desk, not a discussion forum. There are thousands of discussion forums available on the Internet that you can use. -- kainaw™ 22:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised if someone has done a study on this subject - people do all kinds of studies on what different people find attractive. --Tango (talk) 22:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

There are some references in the article on interracial marriages which may be interesting. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Isn't it obvious? White men in general have the most prestige in western society. Films, books, magazines, and newspapers reinforce this notion constantly. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

And why do white chicks prefer black men? Seriously, Asian woman are specially narrow in some place, black men are specially well-developed in some place. How should it work?80.58.205.37 (talk) 15:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

In other words, 80.58.205.37 has never been to an Asian sex show. Narrow? You've got to be kidding. -- kainaw™ 16:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

White chicks prefer black men to what? White men? I don't think so. Interracial marriages aren't uncommon, but they aren't the norm. --Tango (talk) 16:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

debito.org has a great japanese flyer warning the girls off gaijin penisses, in a way simply unthinkable in the West. --Radh (talk) 16:25, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

As a White man living in Asia for 25+ years, my view is that Western men -- race unimportant -- treat women far better than Asian men, and Asian women treat men far better than Western women, at least in the traditional sense. DOR (HK) (talk) 02:52, 15 October 2008 (UTC)