Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 June 4

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June 4

Trading spaces

The Mississippi River is the boundary between many US states, but events such as the 1812 New Madrid earthquake have shifted the river's course, leaving little bits of most river states on the wrong side of the river, such as the areas that you can see of Tennessee and Arkansas on this map. Any idea if any pair of states have ever tried to swap such bits? Nyttend (talk) 13:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Often times, these bits of land are unpopulated and non-productive bits of swampland with little intrinsic value. One notable exception is Kaskaskia, Illinois which was originally on the east bank of the Mississippi, and is now on the west. However, I am not sure there is a compelling reason to do so. Either a) the land is valuable and populated and thus the state that has it probably does not want to lose it or b) the land is worthless and unpopulated, and then there's no reason to be bothered over it. It's a cartographic curiosity, but there's not much practical purpose in moving around the borders. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:25, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

A similarity would be the panhandle of Oklahoma attempting to join Texas (if I remember correctly - I doubt they tried to join Arkansas). The attempt failed. -- kainaw™ 17:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

The Piscataqua River has not moved, but that doesn't stop New Hampshire and Maine from fighting over where their boarderborder is. APL (talk) 18:44, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Probably asleep in his dormitory, or maybe hiding in the woods.  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 20:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Of course, the difference there is over a very productive piece of land, the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard and that the two states have probably NEVER agreed on the location of the border. The borders around the Mississippi River states have long since been agreed upon; and they shouldn't move simply because of the fickle nature of the river. To put it simply another way; if a chunk of earth belongs to Tennessee, that chunk of earth should not change possession simply because the river running next to it moved. The issue with the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard is that there has never been an agreement on where the border really is; whether the border lies along the Maine shoreline or along the main navagation channel of the river. Its the difference between an unsettled issue and a LONG settled issue. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Tennessee River#History#Water rights and border dispute with Georgia and there I was doing an internship as a surveyor, 30 odd years ago, thinking it was only farmers having bawls and moving border markers :) Note "nonproductive swamplands" can become prized all of a sudden when your city needs to put a straw in the river. Rumor has it the surveyors didn't fancy explaining their trade to the local native population and decided to take their craft to a bit farther south than planned. Georgia would like to have the border where the line was on the map. Tennessee is fine with it staying where it is. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 06:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I am pretty sure the same thing must happen between countries, according to this[1] the Rio Grande (boreder between USA and Mexico) used to change course until it has been managed over the last century. I don't think that a few hundred yards of desert are likely to start a territorial dispute though. -- Q Chris (talk) 07:26, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

How wrong I was. There was a territorial dispute until 1967 [2]. This article outlines the "principles of international law governing river boundaries" : If the river changed its course by the slow process of erosion of one bank and accretion to the other, then the boundary moved with the deepest channel. If, on the other hand, the river changed its course suddenly by avulsion – that is, if it deserted its old bed and cut a new one in a short amount of time – then the boundary remained in the old bed even if it was now dry. -- Q Chris (talk) 07:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Rio Grande border disputes. AnonMoos (talk) 09:53, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

What does a bronze star mean?

I have been told that bronze stars, which are described as being awarded for "specific acts of bravery," are being handed out in Iraq as, basically, attendance awards--you show up, you get a star. I don't know where to find out if this is true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.166.188.99 (talk) 16:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Not sure about those specific criticisms, but you could read Bronze Star Medal for more background. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

While dated, this article may be of use. Note the discussion of the "BS" for service versus the "BV" for valor in combat; many discusssions of awarded quantities don't distinguish these. Poking around, I see suggestions that the Bronze Star was similarly common in Vietnam, so this is perhaps not a new phenomenon. — Lomn 19:34, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

If I may drop in a tangentially related point, a bronze star on a Wikipedia article (top right hand corner) means it's "Featured", ie of the highest quality. For more information see WP:FA and WP:FL --Dweller (talk) 12:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Name of English Industrialist

I am looking for the name of an English Industrialist (think industrial revolution). He had a really awesome name (perhaps kingdom was in it don't really remember). There's also a picture of him on around here (on WP) of him posing with chains behind him, if that helps. I know this sounds vague, but any help would be appreciated.--CM (talk) 21:37, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Isambard Kingdom Brunel. He was a really awesome guy. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:39, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for identifying this old school pimp. CM (talk) 21:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

"Old school pimp" doesn't mean the obvious as I can find nothing in Mr Brunel's biography about a second career in flesh-peddling. Is it a compliment? // BL \\ (talk) 22:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it is. I mean, look at that top hat! He's big pimpin'! Adam Bishop (talk) 01:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Not just a fashion statement, I believe he used to keep a box of cigars in it (he chain-smoked them). Popular legend sometimes adds packets of sandwiches and various other comestibles and prerequisites. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 18:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Paul Harvey Essay

Is there a way I can obtain a copy of Paul Harvey's Essay on Missippi?G. Annie Hare (talk) 22:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

You could contact American Broadcasting Company and find out if they have a transcript or recording (assuming it is this Paul Harvey we are talking about). I'm not sure who the best contact would be. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Googling for Paul Harvey Mississippi gives this essay, along with a disturbing photo of Mr. Harvey. --Sean 14:31, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

That, btw, was his 100% standard press photo used in all stories about the guy, if my recollection is correct. Tempshill (talk) 17:45, 5 June 2009 (UTC)