Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 August 17

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

August 17

Historical exchange rates for the old Turkmenistani manat (TMM)

I am trying to find out what the US dollar (USD) to the old Turkmenistani manat exchange rate was in 1998. Are there any websites which have historical exchange rate data going back this far? Most of the conversion websites I checked don't list the old manat (TMM as opposed to TMT), and those that do don't have data for 1998.

In general, can anyone point me to a good source for historical exchange rates for discontinued currencies? Lots of articles here give expenditure figures in obsolete currencies, so it would be great if there was some way of putting them into context. —Psychonaut (talk) 13:44, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

See my comment at your talk page. Nyttend (talk) 01:53, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

how is 'childlore' like cooties passed on?

how is 'childlore' like cooties passed on? how does it get from city to city? If it's really used ages 6-10 (as in the rhymes in the cooties article) how does it not die out very quickly. Instead it's apparently common in every child generation in every city all over america. what gives?

Do TV, school, and parents give you cooties? 178.48.114.143 (talk) 15:22, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Kids get cooties (and other cultural artifacts) from other children, not from adults. It is passed on from child to child and spreads geographically with the movement of families. Take a look at this - Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 June 25#Traditional children's rhymes and songs - where I asked a related question some time ago. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:41, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

I heard "eenie, meenie, miney, mo" might be a remnant of an ancient dead language's "1,2,3,4". Chrisrus (talk) 15:51, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

A reference in our Article suggests the Opies thought it might be from Cornish. I don't myself speak it, but Kernowec's simple numbers "1,2,3,4" do not differ so radically from those of the more northerly Brythonic one(s) that gave rise to Yan, tan, tethera, pethera, so maybe it was a similar concept with differing words, as "first, second, third, fourth" is in English. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.213.246.168 (talk) 16:57, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Although "eenie" is not far off "one" in a number of Celtic languages, the rest bears little relation - see List_of_numbers_in_various_languages#Celtic_languages. Alansplodge (talk) 17:28, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

The claim as I recall was that it was thought to have been pre-Celtic, which would make it very old indeed. Chrisrus (talk) 03:37, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't help that the myth is fairly frequently "confirmed" by real cooties showing up in the classroom. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:25, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

• Cooties, for anyone who, like me, had not the faintest idea what this thread was about. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:22, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

My wife and I were recently wondering about a similar thing to this. We were wondering how "hot lava" gets passed along. For those who might have missed it in their childhoods, hot lava is where you imagine that the floor is covered in hot lava and you have to move around the house by climbing from one piece of furniture to another without touching the floor. Dismas|^(talk) 22:55, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Isn't this all actually passed on by adults who remember it from childhood? I am always telling my son stuff like that, that I remember my parents telling me. They also get it from teachers (certainly the case for "hot lava"). Adam Bishop (talk) 01:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

• I asked a question here about building "forts" which seems almost spontaneous, although the word is obviously passed on in the US, and the structures are called other things in other countries. This book is quite good on the topic, especially if you were a kid in the 70's and 80's in the US. μηδείς (talk) 01:53, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Iona and Peter Opie were anthropologists who studied this very question; their book The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren will repay careful study. Marnanel (talk) 12:04, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Or try One Potato, Two Potato, The Folklore of American Children by Mary and Herbert Knapp.

Peekaboo, hide-and-go-seek, and tag (game) and other such games are cultural universals, I think. That would make them either traceable to the mother culture of us all, or more likely, instinctive. Chrisrus (talk) 03:37, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Staline's radio speech on 3 july 1941

Hello Learned Ones ! I am looking for some refs about Staline's speech, 3 july 1941 (maybe the equivalent of de Charles de Gaulle's and Winston Churchill's speeches) but didn't find anything on WP en. There was a phrase in the article Timeline of World War II (1941) , about Staline broadcasting on the 3 July his second radio speech ever, but it has been erased, & I can't find it back. Can you ? And do you have some refs about that speech ? Thanks a lot beforehand, t.y. Arapaima (talk) 17:52, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

The English Wikipedia is useless for anything involving Russia or Russian history. See ru:Выступление Сталина по радио 3 июля 1941 года. --Ghirla^-трёп- 11:22, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

A translation of the speech into English can be found here: [1]. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:04, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Staline? That sounds like a Ru-Paul show contestant from Georgia in the Caucasus. μηδείς (talk) 01:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

See fr:Joseph Staline. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 02:14, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Ah, quel dommage. μηδείς (talk) 02:43, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Not as unfortunate as fr:Vladimir Poutine. Adam Bishop (talk) 11:14, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

I love the fun that can be had with transliterations of surnames. German requires 13 letters for Chruschtschow. English needs 10 (Khrushchev). Russian requires only 6 (Хрущёв). What a smart language. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 12:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

I suspect Chinese requires only two. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:40, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Letters? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 05:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

You can just go to our article on Khruschev, look at the left under "Languages", go to the Chinese article, and see exactly how long the Chinese name is. Khruschev is transliterated as 赫鲁晓夫, so 4 characters. --Bowlhover (talk) 09:36, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Ekaterina Svanidze , Stalin's first wife

Aow, well, yes, I wrote "Staline" , french way, because in my youth (end of the '40), we used to see "Vive Staline !" painted across so many walls (along also with "US GO HOME" , & we nearly ended in a "democratic" republic, East Germany way : commies nearly landslided in the first post-war general elections)- & because in french "Stalin" 'd be pronounced "Stalein", which wouldn't do. Going back to Stalin's speech, it looks that (apart from AndytheGrump) , its memory seems to have been lost...Too bad, such a fine piece of oratory art, and so nicely mouthed out, too... Thanks a lot to all PS : discovered RuPaul , interesting & courageous person, I think. Rather not the Stalin's type, though (see JPG)... Arapaima (talk) 08:29, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Ru-Paul certainly has better music videos and movie cameos. See my favorite, http://www.spokeo.com/Barack+Obama+1/Dec+01+2008+Other+Photos. μηδείς (talk) 17:51, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Arapaima -- I doubt whether many English-speakers would treasure Stalin's rousing oratory on this occasion, for such reasons as that Stalin had significantly weakened the Soviet military beforehand by decimating the officer corps with multiple secret-police purges; Stalin refused to take steps to minimize the impact of a possible German invasion, despite receiving warnings from multiple independent credible sources that a German invasion might be imminent; and when the German invasion did occur, Stalin underwent a kind of mini-nervous-breakdown or ineffectually dithering state for several days. Of course, many others suffered as a result of Stalin's massive failures, but Stalin himself did not personally suffer. This guarantees that any Stalin speech in early July 1941 would be regarded as pretty much a hollow mockery of empty rhetoric by many well-informed people... AnonMoos (talk) 00:46, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

I am inclined, AnonMoos, to accept that account--can you suggest who might have been acting behind the scenes to keep things together while Stalin was freaking out, or was there no such person at the time? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 01:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure it was any one individual - though Molotov may have been a significant player. At that stage though, 'keeping things together' probably consisted largely of issuing orders to the army that they were in no position to carry out. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:31, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

And though, today's 3 most beloved heroes in USSR are Vladimir Vysotsky , Lenin, & Stalin ! Thanks a lot for the second helping, Learned Ones, and, Ghirla, thanks for your pointing the WP ruarticle. Though Stalin's speech seems only a paraphrase of Molotov's speech (22 june 1941), could someone edit a small article about it in WP en , for History's sake (as I said supra , Stalin has been such a fixture for us continental Europeans : I remember having heard his dismal voice several times in my youth, while listening to the radio in the '50, apparently they liked it on our station FranceInter) ? . Thanks a lot again to all.

Arapaima (talk) 07:23, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Primary sources for Operation Himmler

According to our articles, Operation Himmler was a series of false flag operations, most notably the Gleiwitz incident, designed to manufacture a pretext for Germany to invade Poland, thus starting World War II. Apart from the written testimony of Alfred Naujocks, are there any primary sources confirming that the Nazi government planned and carried out these operations? That is, did the government itself leave extant any written plans, or did any of the government or military officials tried at Nuremberg or elsewhere admit to staging these operations? —Psychonaut (talk) 19:01, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

American state funeral

Can an American state funeral be declared by a state or territorial government? Or can only the federal government recognize/declare a state funeral? Can Georgia declare a state funeral for Jimmy Carter in Atlanta? --KAVEBEAR (talk) 22:33, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

A funeral in state has nothing to do with one of the fifty states as such. μηδείς (talk) 01:48, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

I am not confusing the word state in state funeral and a US state, if that is what you are talking about and I saw that article already and that is why I am raising this question. According to this a state funeral is a "a ceremonial funeral for a head of state, or other very important person". So no state government can declare a state funeral and have one in their state capital and only the federal government can and it has be in Washington DC to be considered a state funeral?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:04, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

If you are not confused, then you will not need advice on how to use Google or this website to search for such things as "Pennsylvania" or "Massachusetts state funeral" and come to your own conclusions. μηδείς (talk) 02:14, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Wow aren't you just hostile?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:45, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Medeis, if you don't like a question, don't answer it. --Lgriot (talk) 09:10, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

The army's official how-to on US state funerals is here. This article, prompted by Reagan's death, reviews previous presidential state funerals, reiterates the point that the honour is reserved for presidents, former presidents and people chosen by a president, and notes that this has been the case in practice since the death of William Henry Harrison. There doesn't seem to be any precedent, or any mechanism by which a US state, independent of the President, could stage something officially recognised as a "state funeral" for a person. - Karenjc 09:10, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

That last NBC sentence is a bit vague. Are state funerals reserved for those chosen by the president to have a state funeral or chosen by him to serve in a prominent state position (Supreme Court justices, for instance)? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:36, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, mechanism — they could pass a law providing for a "state funeral" at the state level, and then do it. Isn't that a mechanism? States have secretaries of state; I don't know why they can't have state funerals, maybe for particularly honored governors. --Trovatore (talk) 18:51, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Michigan's only feeling poorly, a bad, but not fatal case of the "Detroits". All rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated. Honest. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:12, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

> Voynich manuscripts

hi there i wanted to ask everyone for a huge favor, witch is if you can any information pictures etc related to the Voynich manuscripts please

thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.7.35.160 (talk) 23:41, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Jack of Oz suggests you read the link he's provided. (Or maybe he was just kidding?) μηδείς (talk) 02:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)