Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 September 12

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

September 12

Name of specialized cannon shot English

"Scissor shot" from Vasa

In Swedish the term for the shot in the image to the right is saxlod, literally "scissor shot". I've personally never seen this particular type of shot outside of the Vasa Museum collections. Is there an English-language term for this?

Peter ^Isotalo 17:23, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Vasa cannon balls

I was trying to figure out how it could be fired from a cannon - as the second image shows, it is in two halves, and the 'scissors' are presumably rotated closed to load it. Our list of cannon projectiles doesn't seem to describe anything like it: perhaps the Vasa examples are unique, or at least rare. If so, there may not be an English name for them. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:32, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

The nearest equivalent I can immediately find in English-language sources is "expanding crossbar shot" (not mentioned in our article either), but that has two weighted halves which move apart in flight, rather than a single weight that rotates open. Tevildo (talk) 21:08, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I found this which bears some similarity. It comes from a late 16th century wreck found off Alderney in the Channel Islands and is described as "cross-bar (or ‘star’) shot". [1]. Elsewhere on the same website, another term is used to describe what seems to be the same type of shot: "More important finds returned from conservation... a spike shot that has two long protruding spikes on either side of the ball. Again, the purpose of these is unclear, it had been thought that burning cloth might be wound around them and that the spikes would impale the shot and burning cloth to the ships timbers setting them alight, but in trial firing replica shot passed right through two inches of oak timber." [2]. Note that a different 18th century type of shot is also referred to a "star shot". Alansplodge (talk) 00:39, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for pitching in, everyone. According to the Naval Museum in Karlskrona (which also belongs to the National Maritime Museums), the purpose of the "scissor shot" was simply to destroy rigging. Alternative terms in Swedish are korslod or krysslod, which both mean "cross shot". According to SAOB, the two bars or pikes were supposed to be perpendicular to one another after the shot left the cannon. So it would make a cross-like shape. According to SAOB, both terms date back to at least 1555[3][4] where they were used in official state artillery lists.[5]

With this in mind, it seems like "spike shot" or "star shot" would be the most closest equivalent English-language terminology.

Peter ^Isotalo 10:50, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd suggest you avoid star shot since it could be confused with star shells (modern illumination shells). Sjö (talk) 09:24, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Maybe, but there's a difference between shot (a solid projectile) and shell (which incorporates a space filled with an explosive to make it burst) for those in the know. Alansplodge (talk) 13:00, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, yes, but the casual reader might misunderstand, especially if there isn't a picture. Communication is hard as it is, and it's good to avoid a misunderstanding if there's an easy way to do it.Sjö (talk) 13:38, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Point taken and I enjoyed your link :-) Alansplodge (talk) 21:02, 14 September 2015 (UTC)