Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 December 6

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

December 6

Sister Mary so-and-so

Is there a Catholic order (or maybe it's true in the entire RCC) where all of the nuns are named Sister Mary [middle name] Something-or-other? How does it work, i.e. if your name is Barbara Smith and you sign up as a nun, do you become Sister Mary Barbara Smith? If your name happens to already be Mary Smith, do you become Sister Mary Mary Smith? I remember seeing something like this a while back. Also, Sister Mary Celine Fasenmyer may have followed this practice, since she is sometimes referred to as Sister Celine. Her biography doesn't specifically mention her birth name. Thanks. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 03:14, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

[[1]] is one discussion that mentioned it. Generally after the Mary you had the name of another saint and gender agreement is not important. These name can be unrelated to your baptismal name or confirmation name. See How do Sisters Receive their Names? for some examples. Rmhermen (talk) 05:39, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! From the links I gather they receive the names from their superiors rather than picking their own like the Pope. That angle hadn't even occurred to me. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 08:25, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Rabbinical views on creation

I remember a Jewish story about a Rabbi who claimed that the world has so much suffering that it would have been better if God had not created it at all. But I can't remember the second half of the story. Someone (another Rabbi? God) responds to him. What was the response? --Munchkinguy (talk) 05:40, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

But for the rabbi bit, it could be Job (biblical figure).--Wehwalt (talk) 07:16, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

There is a story in the Talmud, Eruvin 13b:14 ([2]), that sounds something like that:

For two and a half years, Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel disagreed. These say: It would have been preferable had man not been created than to have been created. And those said: It is preferable for man to have been created than had he not been created. Ultimately, they were counted and concluded: It would have been preferable had man not been created than to have been created. However, now that he has been created, he should examine his actions that he has performed and seek to correct them. And some say: He should scrutinize his planned actions and evaluate whether or not and in what manner those actions should be performed, so that he will not sin.

I think that might be the one. --Munchkinguy (talk) 00:08, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Is that what you were thinking of? --Antiquary (talk) 11:13, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

There does seem to be a tradition in Judaism of arguing with God ;-) I hadn't come across this one of a rabbi telling God he'd made a mistake creating man though! Dmcq (talk) 15:23, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, the very name "Israel" can be translated loosely as "To struggle with God". See Jacob wrestling with the angel, Jacob#Etymology. --Jayron32 15:52, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

What does the Talmud have to say about that group or individual that think they know better than God does? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:41, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Oven of Akhnai, one of the most celebrated stories in the whole shebang, is a brilliant story about how man knows better than God does when it comes to things given by God to man. Our article could be a bit better. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:16, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Governments using private lawyers as prosecutors

Do governments in common law countries ever use private lawyers or law firms to prosecute people in court?Gevaltio (talk) 06:59, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes. Much of NZ's high level prosecution work actually involves private law firms as mentioned in Crown Prosecutor (New Zealand). Nil Einne (talk) 11:18, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

In England, prior to dedicated prosecution agencies, it was quite common.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:24, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Even today, while Crown Prosecution Service staff will prepare a case, it is still quite common for them to employ an independent barrister to actually present the case in the crown court [3] Wymspen (talk) 16:29, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

See also [4] [5] [6] [7] for more details on the structure in NZ. (Probably similar to how it was in England before, but that's just a guess.) Although don't confuse the issue of private prosecutions which are not related to the government. Nil Einne (talk) 11:27, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

In Canada, at the Federal level, a mix of public sector and private sector lawyers are used, via the Public Prosecution Service of Canada. [8]. --Xuxl (talk) 16:18, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Bonar Law's Kino frock-coat and Hope Bros. collar

Max Beerbohm said that "Bonar Law is common, but has a strong antiseptic William Archerish charm... and the way in which his Kino frock-coat rides up over his Hope Bros. collar is a perfect dream" (quoted in Peter Rowland, The Last Liberal Governments: Unfinished Business 1911-1914). I would be interested to know more about Hope Bros. and Kino, both presumably tailors, and from the context not of the class Beerbohm would have frequented. DuncanHill (talk) 22:57, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Hope Brothers is mentioned here in passing by several commentors, here in an 1890 book, and here in a 2014 book, which calls them a bespoke tailor. I believe a kino coat, is also sometimes called a cinema coat, and refers to a long double-breasted coat like this or this, which is more commonly called a frock coat. I don't think Kino is a brand name or company. I could be wrong about that one, though. Google is giving me a bit of trouble working that one out. --Jayron32 12:50, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, tho' I can't read any content in the first Google books link (The Tailor and Cutter and London Art Journal). I did find a couple of Kino mentions, A Gustavus Adolphus Kino of Islington here and C. J. Kino of West Strand and Fenchurch Street here. DuncanHill (talk) 13:04, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

You can still buy a kino coat (if you have enough money); see PURE CASHMERE KINO COAT. Also "Kino may refer to: In film and theatre: from the Norwegian, German, Polish, South Slavic (Serbian, Croatian, Slovene, Macedonian, Bulgarian) and the Russian spelling of cine for cinema". Not sure what the relationship between a cinema and a coat is though... Alansplodge (talk) 14:06, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Apologies Jayron, I missed your link to the same shoptagr.com site above. I'll get my coat. Alansplodge (talk) 14:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

I think cinemas are a red herring, Kino is capitalised in the original, and as I pointed out there was a tailor called Kino. DuncanHill (talk) 14:12, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Although a cinema coat is a thing, apparently. Alansplodge (talk) 11:29, 8 December 2018 (UTC)