Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 June 27

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

June 27

Leon Degrelle

A part of the current Leon Degrelle's WP biography has been (rightly) challenged for sources, q.v.

Using my years-old Wikipedia's reference desk access to US and British Newspaper Archives I have tried to find RS to fix it. Alas, my US newspaper archives account has expired, while the British one allowed me to display only two (fascinating otherwise) historical pages.

I have found nothing about this presumed law in the usual suspects: Google Scholar, etc.

-> Can someone find a RS if the Belgian "Lex Degrellana" etc. really existed?

Feel free then to fix it directly in the article then. Please ping me on the reply.

Zezen (talk) 08:49, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

That and some other stuff, totally unreferenced, was added by an IP on Jan 29.[1] You could consider zapping the whole thing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:17, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

@Zezen: Quite a lot of it comes from an American Holocaust-denial website, the "Institute for Historical Review". I've removed a fair bit, and added some "citation needed" tags. DuncanHill (talk) 15:26, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

How is it that Trump v. Hawaii did not overturn Korematsu v. United States?

In legal terms, how is it that the Trump v. Hawaii case did not "officially" overturn the Korematsu v. United States case? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:46, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

The Korematsu article makes it clear: the parts of the Trump judgment referring to Korematsu were obiter dicta. Henry^Flower 22:15, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

OK. That is indeed mentioned in the Korematsu article, but not in the Trump v. Hawaii article. So, I missed that. Thanks. Another question: While the Supreme Court was dealing with that issue -- and making all of those comments -- why not simply and explicitly overturn Korematsu? What is gained by not doing so and by only "disavowing" Korematsu in ober dicta? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:05, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Well, that's not the way that judicial precedent works: a court can't just decide to overturn a case; its reasoning only sets a precedent to the extent that it's part of the ratio decidendi. Everything else they say is obiter, whether they want it to be or not (and what's obiter and what's ratio decidendi is itself something which lawyers can have hours of fun arguing over in subsequent cases). Henry^Flower 07:28, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Joseph, if I can recommend the podcast "More perfect". Its latest episode addresses a bit the trump case and extensively the Korematsu one. https://overcast.fm/+GpUPMvOfg --Lgriot (talk) 14:18, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

The notes that you see in law reports are

A v B affirmed, C v D distinguished, E v F overruled.

The facts in two legal cases are unlikely to be exactly the same, but the issues are often similar. An important part of advocacy is arguing that a previous case is on all fours with yours (where the decision was favourable to your client) or that there are differences (where the decision favours your opponent). Previous case law is often a welter of conflicting decisions. Judges try to make sense of it all by pointing out where the particular circumstances in one case might have led to the decision being different from that in another. Sometimes they fail, and come straight out and say that a particular decision was wrong. There is also (and this is frowned upon because of the "declaratory theory of the common law") "judge-made law". Judges decide that the law on a particular subject is out of date and they are going to change it, notwithstanding that such changes are supposed to be made only by Parliament. 2A00:23C0:7905:B600:C001:4273:EE1F:4468 (talk) 20:03, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

comparison between germanic and Roman deities

Is there a table of comparison between germanic and Roman deities as celtic deities#Table?--2001:B07:6463:31EE:1874:555B:6C1F:17C6 (talk) 21:12, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. Any such comparison would be highly speculative. This is due to a lack of data. The Celtic record is very limited in comparison to both the Roman and Germanic records. And even where comparisons may be made in the Roman and Germanic record (such as by way of Germanic weekday names, see interpretatio germanica), scholars still encounter quite a few problems. :bloodofox: (talk) 21:24, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

is there on web?--2001:B07:6463:31EE:1874:555B:6C1F:17C6 (talk) 21:35, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

:bloodofox:, did you perhaps read the question backwards? They're asking about Germanic deities, not Celtic. Matt Deres (talk) 23:47, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Looks like I did! Anonymous, perhaps you’re looking for this: interpretatio germanica :bloodofox: (talk) 23:54, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

General Butcher

Looking for a name of General called Butcher. Seemed to be around on the mid-late 19th Century, perhaps the early 20th century. He was was of dad of William Blair-Bell. I have searched on Google books, but no result. Any ideas. It is not Haig. scope_creep (talk) 21:16, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

He seems to have been Major General Arthur Butcher of the Royal Marines Light Infantry, son of Samuel Butcher. DuncanHill (talk) 21:28, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

He was also the father of Arthur Holland (British Army officer), who changed his surname in 1910 (it doesn't say why, but it was usually a ploy to inherit money from a family friend or distant relative without direct heirs). Alansplodge (talk) 08:50, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Here is Maj.-Gen. Arthur Butcher's entry on peerage.com - I'm not sure we have the right chap as the only offspring shown is Colonel Henry Townsend Butcher. Alansplodge (talk) 12:53, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Helen Barbara is reported to be his daughter. Certainly it is the right time period and a UK General. scope_creep (talk) 13:55, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Found this: [2] Edward Augustine Bell, was the son of William Blair-Bell. It states that Helen Hilaire Barbara was the daughter of Maj. Gen Arthur Butcher, RMLI. So RMLI is Royal Marines Light Infantry. So it seem to be the right person you identified. I will need to remember to check the period lists the next time, although I really enjoy these wee voyages of discovery at the reference desk. Thanks very much. DuncanHill, Alansplodge, Alansplodge. scope_creep (talk) 14:11, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• Just to note that Helen Barbara is "Helen Hiliare Barbara Butcher" (Barbara is not a surname) - Blair-Bell article tweaked. When she was baptised at Pembroke Dock in 1846 her parents were given as Arthur and Jane Butcher. Arthur is described as a Lieutenant in the Royal Marine Corps. MilborneOne (talk) 16:42, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Okay, it's the right one after all. Thanks. Alansplodge (talk) 08:25, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Editing test? Not part of the question. Matt Deres (talk) 23:48, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I discovered an obscure 21st-century mixed martial artist called General "Berzerker Gen" Marrow yesterday, and this seems like the only fitting place I'll find to share this bit of useless knowledge online. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:44, 27 June 2018 (UTC)