Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2019 June 3

Humanities desk
< June 2	<< May | June | Jul >>	June 4 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

June 3

Knighthood

We all know of living people who have been knighted, such as Sir David Attenborough or Sir Paul McCartney. My query is; can only the monarch of the UK grant such a title. Why do we not hear of any other formal title being granted by the King of Spain or the King of Lesotho. Thanks Anton81.131.40.58 (talk) 10:12, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

You may be able to find out more at Category:Orders of knighthood of Spain and at Spanish chivalry. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:20, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

See also Category:Orders of knighthood by country for a more comprehensive coverage. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 12:42, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Although there are apparently no knighthoods in Lesotho, there is an honours system, the Most Courteous Order of Lesotho being the highest. Alansplodge (talk) 12:47, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

81.131.40.58 -- Every independent country has a separate system of honors, and can choose whether or not to include knighthood among those honors. Some would say that France has knighthoods (even though it hasn't had a monarch in about 150 years), since those inducted into the Legion of Honour are named "chevalier"... AnonMoos (talk) 12:56, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

• It's 3 things. First off, most English-speakers just know a lot more about what's going on in Britain than about what's going on in non-English speaking countries. (That's true for people of pretty much any language.) So knighthoods in foreign nations are easy to miss. Second, most of the world's non-British celebrities come from a really small handful of nations that are Republics -- USA, Korea, Russia, France, Germany, Italy, China, Ireland -- or that honor the same Queen as Britain -- Canada, Australia, etc. Third, it just so happens that other really big monarchies either don't consider their honorees to be "knights" (Japan) or aren't in the habit of handing out knighthoods to entertainers (Spain). Add it all up, and while there are indeed non-British knighthoods getting passed out (hello, Kim Gevaert and Víctor García de la Concha!) they usually don't make a big splash in the English-language media. --M@rēino 19:39, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the insightful response. Your have truly answered my question as I had hoped. Thank you M@rēino Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 08:36, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

The New Zealand honours system includes knighthoods, under the monarch of New Zealand, who happens at the moment to be the same person who is monarch of the United Kingdom. HiLo48 (talk) 10:57, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Were there ever other Kansases besides Kansas things and Arkansas/Arkansaw things?

^{Maybe there's an Orkansas River somewhere? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:48, 3 June 2019 (UTC)}

Yes, see List of state and territory name etymologies of the United States which contains information, and especially references you can follow, to allow you to research answers to the question yourself.--Jayron32 13:56, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

I should've clarified that I wondering about prefixkansas rivers, settlements, lakes, mountains, townships or other geographic names. Like Urkansas, Nawkansas, Plotokansas.. I have not heard of any besides Arkansas. I've ruled out counties, Arkansas County is the only one. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:36, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

• If you click through to that etymologies article, you'll see that it's not even clear that the words Arkansas and Kansas are related to each other at all. Most likely, they are (mispronounced) transliterations of two distinct nations, the Quapaw/Arkansas and the Kaw/Kansas. --M@rēino 19:26, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Indeed, and should their origins be related ... another toponym derived from the Kaw/Kansa is Kanaranzi Creek (and Kanaranzi Township, Rock County, Minnesota etc.). (The "k" in "Ozarks" has a possibly related etymology as well :-) ---Sluzzelin talk 19:46, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Miss Ironside's School

I've been finding and adding coords to numerous articles, but this one in South Kensington has me foxed. There are plenty of incoming and outgoing links and evidence for its existence, one even stating that the Queen Mother went there [1]. Maybe it has another name? It was evidently founded by Virginia Ironside's great aunt [2]. I can understand that a top private girls school might not want to overtly advertise its whereabouts, but to have no detectable web presence or street address is rather odd. It has an unofficial facebook page but that is completely blank. So where is it?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 20:22, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

I rather suspect it is no longer extant. There used to be lots of little private schools in Britain. I did find that it was evacuated to Fonthill House in the Second World War, and the founder was a Miss Irene Ironside. DuncanHill (talk) 06:07, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

OK, it was on Elvaston PLace, off Gloucester Road, the teachers were all trained at the Froebel Institute. DuncanHill (talk) 06:14, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps confusingly, Hampden Gurney School (a CofE Primary), had a Margaret Ironside as head in the 30s. DuncanHill (talk) 06:54, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Well done and top marks! I like that "there were no punishments". I have changed the tense of the article.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:03, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Another snippet Shantavira, is from this obituary of Georgina Howell by fellow journalist Virginia Ironside, who reveals that Miss Ironside was actually Virginia's great aunt. Alansplodge (talk) 18:18, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

D'uh! You've already posted that! Chasing my own tail again.... Alansplodge (talk) 19:12, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

A bit more Googling reveals that Eaton House Belgravia Preparatory School (the local council calls it Eton House The Vale School) occupied that address from 28/02/1962 to 31/08/2018. Reason for closure: "Result of Amalgamation/Merger". In January 2019, the building was purchased by the American Institute for Foreign Study (UK) Ltd. [3] Alansplodge (talk) 18:32, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Was miscegenation ever punished with death in what is now the US?

Was miscegenation (interracial sex and/or interracial reproduction) ever punished with death in any part of what is now the US? I know that some US states had prison terms for miscegenation back when it was a crime there, but what about the death penalty for miscegenation? Futurist110 (talk) 23:47, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

There were some lynchings triggered by racial-mixing, which of course would be extralegal. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:58, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

I meant a legal death penalty--not extrajudicial lynchings. Futurist110 (talk) 00:49, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Anti-miscegenation laws in the United States seems pretty thorough and well-referenced. It makes no mention of use of the death penalty in any way that I can see. Do you have some reason to suspect the death penalty was ever on the books? Matt Deres (talk) 01:42, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

One of the sources referenced in that article, "The Invention of the Color Line: 1691" does write:

"Finally in 1691, the Virginia colony passed and enforced the first law on earth against voluntary marriage between free individuals of predominantly European and free individuals of predominantly African ancestry. At first, the law was weak. It punished interracial couples by banishing them from the colony. It did not punish the ministers who married them, nor did it punish their children. Within years, however, punishments became increasingly harsh for anyone complicit in a crime of intermarriage, up to and including death by torture."

Regarding that last part, the essay refers to The Shaping of Black America by Lerone Bennett Jr.. As for "banishing them from the colony" signifying a "weak law", a ThoughtCo article titled "Interracial Marriage Laws History & Timeline" writes: "In the 17th century, exile usually functioned as a death sentence" I guess it's debatable in both cases whether it amounts to an actual legal death penalty, but there it is. ---Sluzzelin talk 12:40, 4 June 2019 (UTC)