Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2019 May 10

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May 10

Did any Nazis ever oppose the Nuremberg Laws?

Did any Nazis ever oppose the Nuremberg Laws? Futurist110 (talk) 01:53, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

You're going to have a hard time researching this. Much of what could be good scholarship on such a question will be swamped by holocaust deniers, Nazi apologists, and white supremacist hate propaganda. General google searches I have done to try to help answer the question for you have turned up so much of that, and so little actual useful scholarship it's not even worth sharing the result. It's a shame, really. It should be a simple thing, but the bigots have ruined it. Such is life. --Jayron32 11:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

After some digging, I did find this, which states "were brought up for vote with the national scenery in the backdrop, at a mass, showcase event. The members of the Reichstag, needless to say, approved the three laws unanimously." So, at first glance, the answer would be "no". --Jayron32 11:16, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia also has a German resistance to Nazism which might be a start for your research. --Jayron32 11:17, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't know an answer to your concrete question. However there were individuals loyal to the Nazi regime who did protest against the violence against Jews at one occasion or another, however hardly ever in a way having any consequences, other than (harsh or mild ones) against themselves. An example is Henriette von Schirach. --KnightMove (talk) 13:00, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Did she actually object to the Nuremberg Laws or only to the Holocaust, though? Futurist110 (talk) 20:42, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Just on strict interpretation of the question though, was she a Nazi? The Wikipedia article does not make that clear. Her father and husband were party members, but there is a difference between being a German and being a Nazi, and I don't know if she was... --Jayron32 13:23, 10 May 2019 (UTC) Answered sufficiently below. --Jayron32 14:07, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

I suspect rather strongly that she was. She was Hitler's secretary for a time, and Hitler and Ernst Rohm were witnesses at her wedding, and she and her husband were part of the Party inner circle until 1945. After the war she was convicted of being an "Altparteigenossin" (old party member). The German Wikipedia article says she became a member of the NSDAP "after her marriage". But what is our criterion? Must we be able to cite her party registration number? If there is a centralized resource where we could find a list of party members it would be very useful. I know of a list for Nazi royals in Petropoulos's Royals and the Reich: The Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany, but don't know of one that's more inclusive.- Nunh-huh 14:01, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Chill. I asked a question. You can just answer it without any snide comments. You are allowed to just say "She was a Nazi, and here is how we know..." and then provide the evidence. Statements like "Must we be able to cite her party registration number?" are not useful towards answering the question, and just generate unnecessary drama. --Jayron32 14:07, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

If you took snide away from that, I'm sorry, because it wasn't intended. I really would like to find a list of party members and their numbers like the (incomplete) one I alluded to. The statement that she became a party member after her marriage, for example, in the German Wikipedia, is unsourced, and a definitive reference would be good to have. - Nunh-huh 18:50, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

There's a "no true Scotsman" aspect here. An important part of being a Nazi is doing what the Führer says. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:33, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps, but not so much I think in this case, as the question isn't "was she a Nazi when she confronted the Führer", but "was she ever a Nazi". I do think it's important to clarify what Wikipedia means when it says "she was a Nazi", and perhaps to distinguish between different levels of 'enthusiasm'. - Nunh-huh 21:34, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

I got caught in the spirit of indenting, I was actually commenting on the OP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:43, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Ah, yes, that makes sense. Yours, in the spirit of indenting! - Nunh-huh 22:03, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

And a final indent: No true Scotsman for anyone unfamiliar. Alansplodge (talk) 08:26, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Johannes Blaskowitz was a WW2 German general who actively disliked atrocities unrelated to military necessity, and reported them up the chain of command early in the war (but he was not a Nazi party member). AnonMoos (talk) 04:35, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks! His suicide was extremely fishy, though. Futurist110 (talk) 20:42, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Overview ZIP code map of US states

I was looking for a map of New Jersey with a rough ZIP code overview, be it only the 07xxx and the 08xxx parts distinguished in color, or somewhat more detailed with one more digit (compare that map of Austria). After some search it seems that such a map does not exist on the web... or where can I find it? What about other US states? --KnightMove (talk) 12:52, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Did you try: https://www.zipmap.net/ or https://www.unitedstateszipcodes.org/ ? --Khajidha (talk) 13:01, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

There was, some years ago, a publication called the Postal Directory often available for reference purposes in the lobby of post offices, that among other things contained ZIP code maps, though not in color and usually organized around Sectional Center Facilities. It wasn't in color but that might be a good place to go.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:02, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Per above, https://www.zipmap.net/New_Jersey.htm, will show the zipcodes on a color coded map for New Jersey, if you zoom in. RudolfRed (talk) 18:30, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

There is or was a file you could download from usps.com that was a list of all the zip codes, with the names of the towns and the geographic coordinates. Someone must have already turned that into a map. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 23:09, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't have the impression the OP wants a map showing the individual ZIP Codes, but the state broken down by which area takes 070XX ZIP Codes, 074, 076, etc, which is usually a cohesive area that sends outgoing mail to a regional center called a Sectional Center Facility, or at least did back in the day. That is why I recommended the Postal Directory, which has such maps for each state.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:01, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives

It is somewhat common, relatively speaking, to see a U.S. Representative run for -- and win -- a U.S. Senate seat. However, it seems rather rare to see the opposite, a Senator who wants to become a Representative. (1) What are the reasons for this? (2) Are there any data or statistics for these things? (3) Does Wikipedia have any pertinent articles? I am only referring to the United States. My question concerns the federal-level offices, but info on state-level offices would also be interesting. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:23, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Sometimes, obviously, it's because they lose re-election as senator. Richard Mentor Johnson and Claude Pepper are examples.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:45, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

What's rare is what Henry Clay did. After being named to the Senate to fill a vacancy, he decided he didn't like the Senate rules, so ran for Congress the following autumn. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 19:57, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

There are only 100 senators, while there are 435 representatives. The numbers alone would make it more likely that an ex-representative would run for senate vs. an ex-senator running for congressman. But there's also the subjective prestige, and not only because senators are rarer. Senators are also more powerful and have longer terms (6 yrs vs. 2 yrs). In general politicians aspire to the most powerful position they can achieve. - Nunh-huh 20:02, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

That was sort of the point behind my question. It seems that moving from Representative to Senator is "climbing up the ladder" and is a "promotion" of sorts. Whereas, moving from Senator to Representative would seem to be "climbing down the ladder" and to be a "demotion" of sorts. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:49, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

The average Senator has more power and influence than the average Representative, since the Senate is smaller and Senators serve longer terms. The Senate also tends to be viewed as more prestigious, and has a number of powers the House does not, such as the "advice and consent" role, ratification of treaties, and trial of impeached officeholders. This is in line historically with many other upper houses in bicameral legislatures, such as the UK House of Lords, which the authors of the U.S. Constitution took inspiration from. The Framers envisioned the Senate as the more conservative and deliberative house that would check the "popular passions" of the House: remember that Senators were originally appointed by the states, and only the House was directly elected. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 01:35, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

See also: Peter principle. ;)  107.15.157.44 (talk) 20:30, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Jerry Brown went from being governor of California to mayor of Oakland, California. He later became governor again, some decades after his first stint as governor. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 23:11, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Joseph, if you weren't aware yet, you might be interested in the post-presidency careers of Adams, Johnson (and Taft) as well. ---Sluzzelin talk 02:55, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

[e/c] Dag nabbit! You beat me to it. 2606:A000:1126:28D:755E:2218:CF7B:AA1E (talk) 02:57, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:06, 13 May 2019 (UTC)