Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 September 9

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September 9

Is there an Ohio Death Record for Jennie S. Papa on Ancestry.com?

Is there an Ohio Death Record for Jennie S. Papa (1909-2008) on Ancestry.com? If so, what does it give for her birthplace? I don't mean Italy, but rather the specific city in Italy. I am asking because Jennie is the sister of supercentenarian Michael DeSantis (1899-2009), a case that I am trying to research more into:

https://gerontology.wikia.org/wiki/Michael_DeSantis

The issue with verifying Mr. DeSantis's case is that he and his family apparently weren't in the US in either 1900 or 1910, so they're not enumerated in either of those two US Censuses. So, the earliest record that we have found for him so far is a 1918 World War I draft registration card (which gives his birth date as May 26, 1899, just like he claimed). If we were able to find out where exactly in Italy Mr. DeSantis and his family lived when his sister Jennie was born in 1909, then maybe I and/or someone else would be able to uncover additional early-life evidence in favor of his claimed age. Futurist110 (talk) 05:52, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Ancestry's Social Security Applications and Claims Index says Jennie S. Papa AKA Vincenza Scianna was born in "Baghina, Italy". No such place seems to exist. A census record suggests she arrived in the United States in 1916, but I have not seen any passenger manifests related to that which might have better detail with that name. If the AKA Vincenza Scianna is correct, however, she likely hailed from Bagheria in Sicily, based on a passenger manifest. I cannot find an Ohio death record. 199.66.69.67 (talk) 06:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't think that Vincenza Scianna is actually her, though. Could you do a search for Genevieve Papa and/or Genoveffa Papa instead? According to the US SSDI, her lifespan should be 1909-2008, as I mentioned above. Futurist110 (talk) 06:49, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Her parents' names should be Quinton/Querino DeSantis and Angela Volpi/Volpe. Futurist110 (talk) 06:50, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

On second look, you're probably right that the Vincenza Scianna is incorrect. Another record with that AKA says it's Jennie Pappa, and the parents' names don't come close to matching what you provide. I was able to find another person's family tree that linked to an Ellis Island record for Angela Volpe, returning with her U.S.-born children on 20 May 1911. The listed "last permanent residence" town is Roccaraso (high confidence I'm reading it correctly), and place of birth may be Rivisondoli (only medium confidence on this due to some pretty obvious inconsistencies on the lines for the children). I think that's as good as I'm going to get. 199.66.69.67 (talk) 17:02, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Is Rivisondoli Angela's birth place or Jennie's birth place? Also, would it be against the rules for you to e-mail me a copy of this record? In addition to the information for Jennie, I'm also curious about the information that this record gives for Michael. Futurist110 (talk) 00:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Angela. I didn't read the other names (these handwritten records are a pain in the neck). You can view it yourself for free at Familysearch: [1]. Angela is on line 11 (the number is crossed out and 10 written in). The birthplace column is the last one on the subsequent page. 199.66.69.67 (talk) 01:27, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Bless you! Amazing and excellent find/discovery on your own part! :) I have now posted this research on the 110 Club forum (which is where we post supercentenarian research): https://the110club.com/michael-desantis-1899-2009-us-pa-t4392-s60.html#p40095140 ; anyway, if you want credit for this research (and really, I don't want to steal credit from you for this), you can e-mail the Gerontology Research Group and tell them your name and about this 1911 document for Michael DeSantis and his family that you discovered. (You could also pass your name on to me and then I could give it to the GRG, but I don't know if you actually want that. You could also remain anonymous if you want, in which case you'll get credit for this verification as being "Anonymous".) Futurist110 (talk) 02:03, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

P.S.: On this record, 12-year-old Michele DeSante is very likely Michael DeSantis (it even lists him as being born in Charleroi, Pennsylvania, just like he claimed later on in his life) and 2-year-old Genoveffa DeSante is very likely the future Jennie Pap(p)a. Futurist110 (talk) 02:17, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Spouse of head of state/government belonging to a different political party

I don't think any American first lady has ever belonged to a different political party than her husband. (At least not during their spouse's term in office.) Can anyone think of an example, from any country, of a spouse of a head of state or head of government who is known to have belonged to a different political party during the period that their spouse was in office? Thanks. LANTZY^TALK 12:57, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

During Slobodan Milošević's presidency, his wife led the Yugoslav Left (JUL), whilst he led the Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS). One could argue that JUL and SPS were allied, but they were distinct political parties. --Soman (talk) 13:05, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Not a country, but Maria Shriver was a Democrat while First Lady of California; her husband is a Republican. 59.124.6.175 (talk) 06:37, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Continuing with the California theme, Democratic governor Gavin Newsom's first wife Kimberly Guilfoyle is now a Republican official and is also Donald Trump Jr's girlfriend. Newsom's current wife Jennifer Siebel Newsom was formerly a Republican and then accidentally joined the far right American Independent Party, incorrectly thinking that made her an "independent". Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:52, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

If we're counting "former", Hillary Clinton was a Goldwater Girl during AuH2O's presidential run in the 1960s. I don't know if Bill Clinton was doing anything political at that time. James Carville (Democratic operative) and Mary Matalin (Republican ditto) are another married "odd couple", though I don't think either ever held office. 2602:24A:DE47:BB20:50DE:F402:42A6:A17D (talk) 08:48, 14 September 2020 (UTC)