Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 February 5

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

February 5

Sumerians in Western histories

When did the historical record ceased to remember what the Sumer civilization was? When did it get rediscovered in the 19th century? 69.209.14.47 (talk) 07:17, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

It was rediscovered with the 19th century deciphering of the cuneiform script, followed by the discovery that some preserved texts were in a non-Semitic language, which was gradually deciphered starting around the turn of the century (see Sumerian language § Historiography); understanding these texts was the key to an understanding of the civilization that produced them. I do not know if Ancient Greek historians have made reference to the Sumer civilization; Herodotus does not mention it in his description of Babylon. --Lambiam 11:29, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

It was certainly known in early classical times; Cyrus the Great included King of Sumer and Akkad among his many titles in the 6th century BCE; this would have been the early part of Greece's ascendancy in the Mediterranean; so it is likely that at least some Western civilizations would have been aware of Sumer as a geographic location and as a concept, though how much of Sumerian history and culture they would have been aware of is likely very little. As far as I can tell, Cyrus is the last person to reference Sumer as a place. --Jayron32 14:58, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

The answer is complicated by the fact that "Sumer" and "Sumerian" can mean different things. They can refer to the geographic area, the Sumerian language, the Sumerian people, or Sumerian historical states [1]. The name Sumer has a Hebrew equivalent Shinar that was always known as a geographic term in Biblical texts. You can see for example Athanasius Kircher's map of "Sennaar" from 1679: File:Map of Sennaar from Athanasius Kircher's Turris Babel.jpg. But he had no idea of the Sumerian language or distinct civilization (and he definitely would have mentioned it if he did! File:Kircher-Diagram of the names of God.png). A lot of ancient usage was also just geographic. As for the Sumerian language, it was still studied in the second or first century BCE: Graeco-Babyloniaca. But probably not much past that time. --Amble (talk) 17:48, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Before the 19th century, European cultures knew relatively little about ancient (pre-Achaemenid) Mesopotamian civilizations beyond that which was contained in Berossus, the Bible, and mentions in the works of Greek historians. The Canon of Kings preserved by Claudius Ptolemy goes back to 747 BC. Everything before that was pretty much legendary as far as the Greeks were concerned... AnonMoos (talk) 08:41, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Mistake Picasso

There's a mistake in the article but it can't be edited. Picasso did not exhibit Le Demoiselles publicly until 1916.

It should be Les Demoiselles. 59.153.254.80 (talk) 13:38, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for flagging that, fixed it. (By the way, a better way to report this would have been on the article's talkpage, Talk:Pablo Picasso, but nevermind.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:44, 5 February 2021 (UTC)