Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 June 4

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June 4

Henriette de Robespierre (1761-1780)

Maximilien, Charlotte and Augustin de Robespierre were all revolutionaries until their deaths, 1794 and 1834. Their sister Henriette was died in Arras on March 25, 1780, nine years before the revolution. What was her relationship with their brothers, and had their same political views? --Trottapiano (talk) 08:58, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Following the death of her mother, she was separated from her brothers at the age of four or five to be brought up by aunts. At the age of six or seven, she was sent to a convent school in Tournai and was still there when she died. [1] It seems unlikely that she would have had any exposure to political ideas, or much (if any) contact with her brothers. Alansplodge (talk) 10:39, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, but can you search more for political ideas? --Trottapiano (talk) 10:46, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

If this teenager had held any un-convent-ional political ideas (and they had not been suppressed by the nuns but been preserved in the historical record), then surely this would have been noted, not only for its curiosity value, but also because the revelation would have caused strong ripples when, inevitably, thrown into the nature versus nurture debate.  --Lambiam 11:02, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Ok, but if you could find something, please white it on my talk page. --Trottapiano (talk) 11:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

How would you see it, against the white background? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:59, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm only interested to know if Henriette was different from her brothers and sister. Please, someone can help me? --Trottapiano (talk) 12:15, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Trottapiano, Bugs was merely joking about your typo ("white" instead of "write") but meant no harm. It's a tough one, because Henriette died so early (most of what we know about her sister Charlotte, e.g., happened during Charlotte's adult life. I tried French sources too, but haven't been able to find much beyond what's written in Alansplodge's link yet. I'll give it another try later (which could mean tomorrow). Thank you for your interest and efforts in creating that article! ---Sluzzelin talk 15:04, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Very well, Sluzzelin. Write in my talk page all you can find about her. --Trottapiano (talk) 15:07, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

The French wiki article on Charlotte sources its information on Henriette to Charlotte's memoir Mémoires de Charlotte Robespierre sur ses deux frères which you can read online - I'm having trouble with the new google books interface but I'm hoping that link will take you to page 46 which is the first place she talks about her childhood with her sister, but as Sluzzelin says it's very scanty information. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 19:54, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

The presentation on archive.org is much easier to read and navigate. See Mémoires de Charlotte Robespierre sur ses deux frères (p. 46). I believe that all the public domain books digitised by Google are also on the Internet Archive. BTW, there's a link you can click on the new Google Books that takes you back to the old format, which curiously is a big improvement on the new one. Alansplodge (talk) 11:11, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Alansplodge! Completely agree.70.67.193.176 (talk) 14:26, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't have time to read that book so, if someone can, please write in my talk page if there are any information. Thank you. --Trottapiano (talk) 12:10, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

It doesn't really add anything, except that Maximillian didn't trust his sisters to look after his pigeons when he was sent off to school at the age of 11, that they were reunited every year in the school holidays, and that the loss of Henrietta changed his character to "sad and melancholy". Alansplodge (talk) 13:28, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

LFPIA

What's an LFPIA? I received an email from a person in Canada I've never heard of before, signed Firstname Lastname PhD LFPIA. (I'm an academic, and the email referred to one of my publications, so this isn't particularly bizarre.) I've run a Google search, but I found virtually nothing other than https://www.planning.org.au/sacontent/history, which has a bunch of oral history interviews with people from South Australia with LFPIA as postnominal letters. Upon finding this webpage, my first thought was "licensed financial planner in Australia", but the page appears to be talking about planning in the land use sense (e.g. urban planning) rather than all kinds of planning. Nyttend backup (talk) 13:42, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Life Fellow of the Planning Institute of Australia. --Jayron32 13:56, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

(e/c)The Planning Institute of Australia has, amongst other members, Life Fellows. So LFPIA = Life Fellow of the Planning Institute of Australia. Life Fellowship is Awarded to long-standing Fellows as recognition of a notable and lasting contribution and distinguished service to both PIA and the profession as a whole. The Life Fellow status is more likely to be considered for a person approaching retirement after a long distinguished career. DuncanHill (talk) 14:00, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

The person's email address is soandso@suchandsuch.com.au, so I guess she must have spent her career in Australia before moving to Canada. Thanks! Nyttend backup (talk) 14:21, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Why did Robinson become Dawson?

Our article on Geoffrey Dawson says "His original last name was Robinson, but he changed it in 1917", but does not tell us why. Can anyone find the reason? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 15:47, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Archives Hub says he "changed his name to Dawson in 1917 when he inherited the family estate in Yorkshire from his aunt, Margaret Dawson." ---Sluzzelin talk 16:21, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, thought it might be something like that. DuncanHill (talk) 16:32, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

And now I found this, looks like a nice estate! DuncanHill (talk) 16:35, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Kaiser Bill & HMS Victory

In Rowse, A. L. (1961). All Souls and Appeasement. London: Macmillan and Co Ltd. p. 93. Rowse describes visiting Berlin with Adam von Trott. Whilst there they visited von Trott's uncle, a von Schweinitz, who had a flat in the Berliner Schloss. He mentions seeing the "big desk made of timbers from Nelson's Victory" in the Kaiser's study. Lady Rumbold, wife of Sir Horace Rumbold, 9th Baronet the British ambassador at the time, wrote "In his study is the famous table on which he signed the order for the mobilisation of the Army on 1st August 1914. This writing table is made out of wood from The Victory, and the huge inkstand is a model of it, with the famous Nelson signal ‘England expects etc.’ in coloured flags. Curious isn’t it?" So, where are the desk and inkstand now? Do we have any pictures of them? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 16:12, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

According to Call To Arms Over By Christmas: Outbreak of War by David Bilton, the desk was a present to Kaiser Bill from Queen Victoria. Alansplodge (talk) 16:34, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

She spoilt that boy. DuncanHill (talk) 16:36, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Indeed. "The monarch’s Neo-Baroque desk, as well, will once again be displayed in the emperor’s former study, a century after it was removed from the New Palace". Exhibition - THE NEW PALACE IN 1918: BETWEEN THE MONARCHY AND THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC. Whether that's the same desk I don't know, perhaps he had several. There's a photo here which shows the saddle that the Kaiser sat on instead of a chair, but no ship model is visible. Alansplodge (talk) 17:11, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

I think that's the desk from the New Palace at Sans Souci, he was allowed to take vast amounts of furniture from there into exile. DuncanHill (talk) 18:22, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

I found this, shewing two desks, and this shewing one of his study in the Berliner Schloss. DuncanHill (talk) 18:38, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Here is Kaiser Bill's desk in the Museum Huis Doorn, with weird saddle-chair but no ship model.

This source and this one say that the 1914 mobilisation order was signed on the Victory desk in the New Palace. Alansplodge (talk) 23:12, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

The order was dated "Berlin". DuncanHill (talk) 09:18, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

And it seems he spoke from the balcony of the Berliner Schloss on the 1st August. DuncanHill (talk) 10:37, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I've found a couple of other sources that say it was at "the Schloss". Curious that there can be any doubt about such a pivotal event. Alansplodge (talk) 11:20, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes. Mind you neither the Kaiser nor Bethmann-Hollweg seem to think it important enough to mention in their memoirs. DuncanHill (talk) 11:59, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Is there a desk-shaped hole in the HMS Victory that tourists view today? Just wondering if a lot of the original ship went to souvenirs like this?70.67.193.176 (talk) 19:57, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Ian Brennan has carved an entire HMS Victory from timbers from HMS Victory. DuncanHill (talk) 21:29, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

When they cut out the piece for the Kaiser's desk, they patched up the hole with timbers from the original Ship of Theseus. --Amble (talk) 21:53, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Where's the bookcase from HMS Crushing Defeat for his exile? Clarityfiend (talk) 20:48, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Victory was already nearly 50 years old at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805 and has since undergone several extensive restorations, 1814-1816, 1922-1928 and 1955. [2] Apparently nearly all of her external planking has been replaced; I have a small billet of oak from the 1920s work which was sold to defray the cost. Alansplodge (talk) 23:12, 4 June 2021 (UTC)