Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 March 3

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March 3

Where is Tsarecze?

Our article Friedrich von Bernhardi says "He fought with success first in the Eastern Front on the Stochod river, where he stormed the bridgehead of Tsarecze..." but we do not have an article or a redirect, and indeed the article about the old war-monger is the only place on Wikipedia (until this question) to contain the word "Tsarecze". So, where (presumably on the Stochod river) is Tsarecze? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 19:33, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

The only non-Wikipedia mirror that contains that word that I can find is This old PD version of Britannica, which is presumably where Wikipedia got it from. The river in question is, I think, supposed to be the Stokhid. Perhaps by going through Google Maps, you can find the location that is being mentioned. Cyrillic --> Latin transliteration is not always well standardized, especially in older texts, so this may take some creative searching. --Jayron32 19:40, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

There is no presumably, our article cites that very source. In fact it probably should have {{EB1922}} because of how closely it cleaves to that text. Shells-shells (talk) 20:07, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

In Der Weltkrieg (1938) it says "Unterdessen nahm bei der Armeegruppe Bernhardi eine aus preußischen , bayerischen und österreichisch - ungarischen Truppen zusammengesezte Angriffsgruppe unter General Clausius am 18. September einen bei Zarecze über den Stochod ...". In Russia's Last Gasp: The Eastern Front 1916–17 we find "At the southern end of Gruppe Clausius, the Russian XLVI Corps succeeded in capturing the small town of Zarecze; Clausius committed his corps reserves to a counterattack, and by the end of the day the battle line ran through the western...". A 1916 account "Eine südlich von Zarecze ( am Stochod ) vom Gegner noch besetzte Sanddüne wurde gesäubert . Gegenangriffe wurden abgewiesen . 4 Offiziere , 300 Mann sind gefangengenommen , fünf Maschinengewehre erbeutet . Bei und nordwestlich von ...". And here "Beim Dorfe Zarecze auf dem westlichen Ufer des Stochod nördlich der Bahn Rowno - Kowel bildet der Fluß ein Gewirr von Armen , die von Sanddünen durchset sind ." etc, etc. So Zarecze would be north of the Rowno-Kowel line. In our dab page Zarichchia, we find one location in Kovel Raion. And voilá, Заріччя (Ковельський район). It's a few kilometers from the river though, so it is probably not that one... --Soman (talk) 21:18, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

At https://pp.userapi.com/c630019/v630019932/3d9b0/Mb8aAU5h9Lc.jpg there is a Russian war map of the battles on Stochod. I really struggle with the Cyrillic cursive, but perhaps the westernmost point... the one over XXXIX? --Soman (talk) 21:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Notably, we have https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Zarzecze_by_Stokhid_River_in_1916 --Soman (talk) 22:25, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

These maps are easier to dechipher: https://kappenabzeichen.hu/en/august-1916-stochod-river/ . So Stobychva (Стобихва) is a more established location. Per the Hungarian map, Zarecze am Stochod would be some 2-3 km directly south. Per google maps doesn't seem there is any village there anymore. --Soman (talk) 22:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)