Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 November 1

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November 1

Has George Will endorsed anyone in the coming U.S. presidential election?

As I was saying: Does anyone know of an endorsement by George Will in the coming U.S. presidential election? Did he say explicitly that he's not endorsing anyone? 178.51.16.158 (talk) 01:12, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Harris.[1] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:30, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

"In September 2024, Will announced that he would vote for Kamala Harris in the 2024 United States presidential election." This statement was added to our article on George Will on September 17. Then still somewhat hidden deep down in the article, this information was added to its lead section the next day.  --Lambiam 07:20, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Worth checking the article first, hunh? I'll have to keep reminding myself! 178.51.16.158 (talk) 18:36, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I grew up reading George Will. The irony is that he's the reason we got Trump as a president, twice. Viriditas (talk) 23:01, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Did he endorse Trump in 2016? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm talking about Will's philosophy vis-à-vis libertarianism, not who he endorses or supports. When I grew up, Will was a huge cheerleader for Reagan, which is how we got into this mess. Reagan, via Paul Weyrich and others, opened the floodgates for the Christian nationalists, who now believe Russia leads the world in maintaining and preserving conservative Christianity. American Christian nationalists believe that democracy is a threat to Christianity, a bizarre idea that led them to forge alliances with Russia and eventually, Trump. You don't have to believe me, but those are the facts. The Heritage Foundation was funded by the same libertarians Will supported, and who are now tasked with converting the US into a hybrid, corporate-theocratic governing body. Viriditas (talk) 10:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Cool story, bro. No evidence adduced. Let me tell you a story in a similar vein, likewise without evidence: Reagan's rise was ultimately a corrective to the massive statism of Lyndon Johnson, whose policies led to the malaise of the Carter years. The one who actually started the correction, in an interesting irony of fate, was Carter, not Reagan.

But Carter was burdened by what had been, in his party. The time was not ripe for center-left parties to take credit for free-market policies; that would have to wait for the Clinton—Blair years of dear memory.

So Reagan got the credit (not entirely undeserved) for the resulting boom in the 1980s.

We do not in fact "know 40 years on that Reagan was wrong". Oh, he was wrong about many things. But not about his liberal economics; that was fine. It was picked up by perhaps the second-best president of my lifetime, Bill Clinton, whom the GOP of the time insisted of making an enemy of for some reason. --Trovatore (talk) 05:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

You’re essentially correct about Carter; that is a well known and oft-repeated anecdote. But Clinton signed NAFTA and supported globalization and promoted neoliberalism which was not beneficial to most people in the US and elsewhere. You appear to be about two decades behind in your analysis. Viriditas (talk) 19:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Clinton signed NAFTA, which was good, and promoted neoliberalism, which was also good. --Trovatore (talk) 19:25, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Branko Milanović: "Why is a neoliberal ruler worse than the “all-encompassing-interest” despot? Precisely because he lacks the all-encompassing interest in his polity as he does not see himself as being part of it; rather he is the owner of a giant company called in this case the United States of America where he decides who should do what. People complain that Trump, in this crisis, is lacking the most elementary human compassion. But while they are right in diagnosis, they are wrong in understanding the origin of the lack of compassion. Like any rich owner he does not see that his role is to show compassion to his hired hands, but to decide what they should do, and even when the occasion presents itself, to squeeze them out of their pay, make them work harder or dismiss them without a benefit. In doing so to his putative countrymen he is just applying to an area called “politics” the principles that he has learned and used for many years in business. Trump is the best student of neoliberalism because he applies its principles without concealment."

Popular dissatisfaction with the effects of neoliberalism is how we got Trump, and in return, we get more. Nice feedback loop. Viriditas (talk) 19:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Neoliberalism is precisely not the guy at the top deciding who will do what. It's letting people choose how they order their economic lives on their own. And Trump is very far removed from it. --Trovatore (talk) 19:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I couldn't disagree more. Trump is the very embodiment of neoliberalism, its end result, as it were. Viriditas (talk) 19:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

You might be overstating Will's influence. If you want to blame someone, you could blame Goldwater. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

What a fun game. I blame Roosevelt. fiveby(zero) 13:03, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Or more specifically, Roosevelt's opponents. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:41, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Like blaming Burr for not shooting that bastard soon enough? fiveby(zero) 17:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Will’s influence on Americans was substantial. He made a case for Reaganomics being as natural as baseball and apple pie. Except 40 years on, we know he was wrong. The largest fruit of Reagan was financialization, which destroys every sector it touches, weakens nations, encourages fascism, and promotes inequality. Viriditas (talk) 04:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

How do companies spin off subsidiaries of the parent company?

How do companies spin off subsidiaries of the parent company? What is the process of spinning off subsidiaries? Do the parent company sell shares of the spin off company to its shareholders WJetChao (talk) 03:15, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

The processes of spinning-off a subsidiary are: first, the parent company groups the line of business to form a subsidiary; second, the parent company transfers the relevant assets to the newly formed subsidiary. Third, the parent company distributes the newly formed subsidiary’s shares to existing shareholders on a pro rata basis as a special dividend. Finally, the newly formed subsidiary is listed separately as an independent company and probably it will also issue and sell shares to the public (the process is called initial public offering or IPO). Stanleykswong (talk) 08:36, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Searching for a PD image of the seal of Patriarch Amalric

I am a bit frustrated. In a snippet view of Sigillographie de l'Orient latin I see that it probably contains an image of the seal of Amalric of Nesle, Latin patriarch of Jerusalem. It is presumably the image of the seal depicted at this site too. Alternatively it might be showing the patriarch's bulla, like this one. The book is in public domain and so we could use its images of seals, but I cannot find it online. This time last year I asked here for help regarding another seal from the same book, and Lambiam and Alansplodge brilliantly found it in another book, but I am not sure that will work now. I will also ask at WP:RX. Surtsicna (talk) 09:07, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

There's a copy of that book on archive.org here. I can't seem to connect to it at the moment, I'm not sure if this is a general issue or my sketchy internet connection. Alansplodge (talk) 13:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately it is misidentified, Alansplodge. That is another book, which can be seen from the title on its cover. And yes, I too have had troubles with archive.org lately. Surtsicna (talk) 13:59, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Ah yes, apologies. The Hathi Trust catalogue record has a publication date of 1943 and says that it "is not available online - search only — due to copyright restrictions". Alansplodge (talk) 16:35, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I found a reference to "la bulle de plomb du roi de Jérusalem, Amauri I^er (1162–1173), qui a été publiée par M. le Marquis de Vogüé⁽¹⁾".^[2] The reference is to: Melchior de Vogüé, "Monnaies inédites des croisades", la Revue numismatique 1864, pp. 275–293 & pl. XIII, nr. 1.  --Lambiam 18:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Isn't that Amalric of Jerusalem? fiveby(zero) 18:31, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, sorry.  --Lambiam 18:41, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

See WP:RX came through. The seal image is taken from the lost Anastasis mosaic correct? Looks similar to that in the Melisende Psalter. fiveby(zero) 18:08, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Is this photo of the seal of Amalric at Dumbarton Oaks public domain? (Or is this photo of a different seal from doaks.org on Commons not really PD as claimed? Or maybe that user patiently went through the request process.) Edit: yes, I think you can upload that to Commons, assuming they photographed it in the US and it counts as two-dimensional. It is unfortunately worn-out and lacks details (such as a face) and the one that was in the auction house Is much nicer.  Card Zero  (talk) 20:32, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I received the page from Bsoyka at WP:RX. I must say that exceeded my expectations. Unfortunately, there is no image at all on those pages. Instead the book seems to point to the same source in which Lambiam found last year's seal: this book. I do not see Amalric's seal there, however. The only seal of a patriarch I see is that of William of Malines (though that too would be worth uploading). Surtsicna (talk) 18:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

(I'm not familiar with the subject matter here, but definitely reach out if I can try to provide any other book scans or other resources. I can access millions of items in some way or another, and I'm always happy to share them.) Bsoyka (t • c • g) 19:02, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Considering that the auction house that sold the fine quality seal is Swiss, wouldn't their photo be public domain?  Card Zero  (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Card_Zero, as far as I know, seals are considered three-dimensional and so any photograph of a seal counts as an original work of art. At least that is why Wikimedia Commons is so severely lacking in seals and we have to resort to 19th-century hand-drawn reproductions. Surtsicna (talk) 19:27, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Russo-Korean war

Norway–Russia border says this:

Yet the Russia–Norway border is the only one of Russia's borders where an open war between the two bordering countries has not taken place.

The next sentence goes on to exclude the Petsamo–Kirkenes offensive, between Russia and German soldiers on site during the Second World War, so clearly it's talking about the current country rather than past occupiers.

Has there ever been open warfare between Russia and North Korea, or between Russia and Korea before 1945? (There is no Russo-Korean War article.) Not knowing much about the geography of the region, I'm unsure whether anything in the Russo-Japanese War article covers this border (even if Japanese control of Korea is treated differently from German control of Norway), and basically all I know about the war is naval anyway. The Soviet–Japanese War article likewise doesn't convey much to me, aside from the fact that the conflict was largely in Manchuria and Pacific islands; all I can see in Korea is related to invasion from Manchuria and an amphibious assault that didn't involve the border zone. Nyttend (talk) 19:16, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Soviet forces began amphibious landings in Korea by 14 August [1945] and rapidly took over the northeast of the country, and on 16 August they landed at Wonsan. from Division of Korea#Liberation, confusion, and conflict. However, Japan surrendered on 15 August 1945. Alansplodge (talk) 23:39, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

So basically, no, Soviet forces didn't cross the border against the Japanese in 1945. What about at any time outside the Japanese suzerainty? Nyttend (talk) 19:06, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't recall Russia having any wars with Belarus, Azerbaijan, Mongolia, Kazakhstan... Was there "an open war" with the USA on the Chukotka-Alaska border? In any case, Nordsletten hardly qualifies as an authority on Russian history. Ghirla^-трёп- 19:32, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

All of those countries were part of the Imperial Russian empire, so I assume they were conquered by force at some point. It depends how much continuity you assume between modern Russia and it's Tsarist predecessor, and those states and whoever was governing that region in the past. Chuntuk (talk) 12:12, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm afraid you are wrong. Mongolia was never a part of the Russian Empire. Neither Kazakhstan nor Belarus were "conquered by force". In effect, Nordsletten's odd claim is a just another black legend about Russia (which en.wiki has been inundated with). Ghirla^-трёп- 21:39, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

What about the Soviet intervention in Mongolia#Soviet invasion of Mongolia in 1921? Not quite a straight conflict between Russia as such and Mongolia as such, but not far short, and on or around their mutual border. [Disclaimer: I have no personal interest in any of this, merely in maintaining Wikipedia's accuracy.] {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.7.95.48 (talk) 17:44, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

The Battles of Khalkhin Gol were a major Soviet-Japanese conflict over Mongolia. And the author of File:Caricature for Riga Peace 1921.png would probably dispute with you about force being used to establish Soviet control of Belarus. AnonMoos (talk) 20:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Does any of this qualify as "an open war between the two bordering countries"? I still see no evidence of a war between Russia and Mongolia on the current border, between Russia and Belarus, between Russia and USA (on the Far Eastern border), between Russia and Lithuania on their current border, etc. In other words, the article's statement is fake. Ghirla^-трёп- 00:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The Russo-Japanese War was largely fought around and about Korea, and there was fighting such as the Battle of the Yalu River on the Korean border. The battles were not fought at the small modern Russian-Korean border, though. There was fighting between the Soviet Union and the Empire of Japan in 1938 at the Battle of Lake Khasan, very near the triple point between Russia, China, and North Korea, although not quite on the Russian-North Korean portion. --Amble (talk) 21:39, 4 November 2024 (UTC)