Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 September 20

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September 20

Split from BNP 2001-2006

I am just curious: how many parties split from Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP) during their term from 2001 to 2006? So far, I know that there were two: Liberal Democratic Party lead by Oli Ahmed and Bikolpodhara party lead by Dr. badrozzoha or what ever his name was. 2607:FEA8:55E2:8B00:49D0:D87A:E12A:81A2 (talk) 01:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Falkland Islands pound

The article Falkland Islands pound mentions they use their own currency there, but scotland technically has its own too but they use regular GBP. Can brits use a GBP card without currency conversion (like scotland)? I understand the unlikelihood of people having been there, but was curious. The same would go for the dutch visiting the carib islands. St Maarten accepts ECD, but I dunno if the southern ones use euros alone? Sportsnut24 (talk) 05:37, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Scotland does not technically have its own currency. Some Scottish banks issue their own notes, which are fully backed by the Bank of England. You can use GBP in the Falklands. Different parts of the Dutch Caribbean use the Netherlands Antillean guilder and the US Dollar, although it is likely many places will accept euros. CMD (talk) 06:27, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I was wondering if GBP card in Stanley would work directly or have currency conversion?Sportsnut24 (talk) 08:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

I know they do in some other UK territories, but always best to check directly with your bank. More importantly, if someone gets Falkland Islands cash, they shouldn't expect it to be useful in the UK. CMD (talk) 10:24, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

I know Gibraltar is fine for GBP. Not been, but I'd use dollars, so it wouldn't matter anyways.Sportsnut24 (talk) 05:47, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

32 years ago when I went to Gibraltar, I could spend my British pounds all right, but when I then withdrew from an ATM it dispensed Gibraltar pounds, which were worth about 10% less when exchanged at a bank in England. --142.112.148.3 (talk) 18:25, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I got a mail from FI that said there is one ATM there and it gives FI pounds but is 1:! with the UK.2A00:F3C:A282:0:1C8B:D2D1:9271:D869 (talk) 16:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Egyptian zodiac

How many of these are there? There's the famous Dendera one, there's a recently re-uncovered one in Esna that's rather -- shall we say very not traditional-formal -- there's one forgotten almost as soon as Petrie illustrated it in Athribis, and there's the pictured one, Belzoni's from Thebes. Which I'm not immediately sure if it is a Zodiac. I'd like there to be a page on these, but I don't know if there are synthetic or contextualizing sources on them like there are few but easily available for Zodiac synagogue mosaic. Temerarius (talk) 22:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Are they all from the Hellenistic or Roman period? AnonMoos (talk) 01:30, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

That's something I'm trying to figure out. And in Dendera's case the dating was so contentious, apparently, that a whole "affair" was declared about it. Baron G Cuvier's 1831 account there mentions the possibility of Ense being a "wholly Mesopotamian zodiac" if that's not a self-contradiction. I'd thought the temple had only been found for the first time recently. You can see some pictures here. https://english.ahram.org.eg/News/491999.aspx You can see the artist was familiar with Egyptian formalism but not beholden to it, they're careful yet cartoonish, literate but not respectful of hieroglyphs, not even bothering to put them on a grid or in relief. It's like they wanted the paint to do all the work for them, perhaps a painter before a carver. The simplicity of their smiles make them look child-made. In other words, the oddness makes it seem unquestionably late. Ptolemaic weirdness perhaps. If Mesopotamia inspired the content, it didn't influence the style. Athribis is more pleasant; naive but native.

Temerarius (talk) 03:16, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

What's with all the black dots like ⬤ on the bottom-line figures? Is there a known explanation?  --Lambiam 08:23, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

The white black dots? Those are sun-disks, but the closest article I could find is solar symbol. [Edit: maybe Eye of Ra.] The slightly different one on the right is between cow horns and belongs to Hathor, or maybe Isis. Of course Ra is depicted with a sun on his head, but here it seems every god gets a sun-disk, maybe because the date is late and Ra#worship has increased? This is from the Tomb of Seti I, and the figures are made of gold. I guess the nine on the right are the Ennead? Not sure what happened to Osiris, in that case, and I don't know about the eleven on the left but I can identify Thoth (by the beak).

Here's a description of how the clutter in the middle is a zodiac. It's being compared to the Astronomical ceiling of Senenmut's Tomb.  Card Zero  (talk) 09:03, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

No, by "black dots" I mean black black dots, "black" as in "the colour black", a colour that results from the absence of light, like the colour of this dot: ⬤. Most figures on the bottom line, especially in the left half, display eight or more black dots, in many cases one on each of their shoulders, one on each of their wrists, one on each of their ankles, and two on the bottom edges of their skirts.  --Lambiam 22:04, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh you mean the black black dots. I missed those. I wonder what they are? In photographs they're brown, the same as the paint used for most of the lines on the figures. Obvious guess: stars? But that's a terrible guess, considering how many are lined up in neat rows. However ... the bull apparently represents the Big Dipper, and if we allow that the nameless man holding the chains is part of it, he has four dots in an oblong, which seem to match up.  Card Zero  (talk) 08:07, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh, the red brown black black dots. Might be stars, just have to count them. If not, they're probably structural not decorative inlay points, if the figures were separate material ("made of gold".) Not saying I've seen an example like that before though.

Temerarius (talk) 17:57, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

waiting now for orange red brown black black dots, then yellow orange red brown black black dots … —Tamfang (talk) 19:23, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Card Zero, good one! Your source says there are 24 Egyptian zodiacs, where some say three. Too bad it doesn't list them.

Temerarius (talk) 02:56, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

It also says they're a Greek period thing. So I guess these older "astronomical ceilings" don't count, despite being constellations, and despite the zodiacs being mostly on ceilings or inside coffin lids. Define zodiac, I don't know, I guess it has to be an approximation to the familiar set of constellations and not some earlier set.  Card Zero  (talk) 08:40, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, what exactly counts as a Zodiac and are they definitionally Greek-derived are questions that come up. I'm gonna reread S Langdon's "Babylonian menologies and Semitic calendars" to see how specifically he uses the word. https://archive.org/details/babylonianmenolo0000step That's a good source that collects many deeply intriguing details and connections. Of course, as any work highly synthetic it requires a piecemeal not wholesale comprehension.

Temerarius (talk) 17:50, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Searching the tomb name gives the article Tomb of Seti I, and Commons has the color photo which says that the dots are painted red and are the actual stars in the (painted) constellations. (I had initially thought they'd be for inlays as well.) SamuelRiv (talk) 01:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Petrie worked at the southern Athribis (Upper Egypt), see Athribis, pp. 12-13, plates pp. 66ff. He says that the tombs are of late date, no earlier than Ptolemaic. MinorProphet (talk) 13:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll add the plates to that page.

Temerarius (talk) 22:16, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

There was a long post that was a bit hard to follow but didn't immediately look like trolling to me, what was the matter with it? Was that a known troll?

Temerarius (talk) 23:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, general word of thumb is if you see a large amount of text appearing and being reverted on here, it's probably VXFC. GalacticShoe (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

A thumb doesn't have words. The words are in the index.  Card Zero  (talk) 06:22, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Looks like I accidentally coined a phrase, it does happen thumbtimes... GalacticShoe (talk) 06:57, 25 September 2024 (UTC)