Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 March 4

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

March 4

Stone

We say "stone deaf", "stone cold" and "stone dead", meaning completely, utterly (apart from the fact that one cannot be only partially dead). What is the derivation of "stone" here? We also say "stone cold last" or "stone motherless last", but not, afaik, just "stone last". Why is this? And what do coldness and motherhood have to do with coming last? Why not "stone fatherless last"? JackofOz 02:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

This isn't referenced, but could it originally have been an adverb meaning as a stone in the sense of as an inanimate object? (Dumb as a stone, deaf as a stone, dead as a stone). Then later we decided to expand the meaning to utterly because we've come a long way since Chaucer, and now we're stone free to ride on the breeze, stone free, do what we please ... ---Sluzzelin talk 03:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

According to Etymonline.com:

stone (adj.)  
intensifying adj., 1935, first recorded in black slang, probably from earlier use in phrases
like stone blind (c.1375, lit. "blind as a stone"), stone deaf, etc., from stone (n.). Stone  
cold sober dates from 1937. 

惑乱 分からん 03:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• I suspect "motherless" is a euphemism for well,doing something else to your mother.hotclaws**== 09:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Good heavens. That puts a whole new light on "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child" for me. —Angr 18:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Unreferenced again, but the motherless last intuitively makes a lot of sense to me. Orphaned and motherless imply deprivation of that which the happy others have, such as being ahead, and not last, in the queue, and thus receiving some of the good bits in the soup. Similarly cold can evoke whole clouds of associations of loneliness, discomfort, and general lack of all the happy things associated with warmth. I guess it makes sense to me, but the real etymology is probably much more twisted and counter-intuitive. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. But folk etymology is a poisoned chalice, so who knows. JackofOz 23:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

What is it called when Mr. Burns from the Simpsons...

When he puts his hands together and laughs, "mauahahaha", he normally does one of two gestures: rubbing his hands together, or rythmically touching thumb to thumb, pointer to pointer, mid finger to mid finger, etc, in a kind of wavy fashion...I know there is a name for this hand movement, what is it called? Cradling your fingers? I think it is called something else... Thanks! 140.180.21.127 03:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I've heard it called "steepling". However, I've never heard him give a "mwahahaha" laugh; he usually just says "Excellent!" —Angr 05:43, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

For some reason the phrase "pursing one's fingers [hands?]" has popped into my head, which would kind of make sense in this context, but I have no idea if I've actually ever heard it before or if it applies here... --Miskwito 05:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

In the episode A Hunka Hunka Burns in Love, it is described as ...tenting your fingers... Anchoress 17:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Along the same lines of this question, what's a more eloquent way to convey that someone arched or raised an eyebrow at someone else in suspicion? z ε n .ıl 06:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

What's wrong with She arched an eyebrow in suspicion? (Or perhaps she spocked him ?). ---Sluzzelin talk 00:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Nothing. I just don't think it's elegant prose to write, "And then he sat, grinning, rhythmically touching thumb to thumb, pointer to pointer, mid finger to mid finger, in a kind of wavy fashion." z ε n .ıl 06:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Steepling means your fingers are still. If they're tapping against each other, I'm not sure there is a word for it. If they were tapping a table, you'd say he was "drumming his fingers on the table," so maybe that could be tweaked into something useful. Black Carrot 06:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

"Drumming his fingers together", maybe? But if I just heard or read that I don't think I'd be able to guess what it was referring to, so I don't know... --Miskwito 07:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Correct English??

The following text (in English) is part of a German Wikipedia article. Some German Wikipedians argue that the text is actually incorrect (and thus want to refer to it as such in the rest of the article), so I thought I'd just ask some native speakers here: Could you do us a favor and point out which parts are incorrect? If some parts are correct, but sound awkward, could you point to those separately? Thanks.

in this difficult situation, Germany would like to emphasize the urgency of its appeal to hold the World Cup 2006 in Germany.

Let me come straight to the point:

In appreciation of your support we would like to offer you a small gift for your vote in favor of Germany:

A fine basket with specialties from the black forest, including some really good sausages, ham and -- hold on to your seat -- a wonderful KuKuClock!

And a beer mug, too! Do we leave you any choice?

We trust in the wisdom of your decision tomorrow,

sincerly yours

Martin Sonneborn

Secretary TDES

(WM 2006 initiative)

Thanks, Ibn Battuta 07:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not ungrammatical. "KuKuClock" should be spelled "cuckoo clock", "black forest" should be capitalized, and I'm not sure how idiomatic "hold on to your seat" (instead of say, "hold on to your hat") is, but otherwise it's okay. Calling it "holprig" as the de article does is exaggerated. —Angr 08:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I hear "hold on to your seat" at last as much as "hat", and the only other thing I can pick at is the "come" in "let me come straight to the point", which I feel should be "get", though that may be dialectal. 222.158.163.245 08:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, the "come to the point" is actually part of the question... though google tells me that it's used even in the venerable British Parliament by Peter Ainsworth from East Surrey :o) ... any ideas? --Ibn Battuta 08:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you are correct; "come straight to the point" seems to be acceptable in British English, so it's just a minor dialectal difference, not a mistake in any way. 222.158.163.245 08:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

... well, one of you guys has already edited the article accordingly, so I guess the question is settled. Thanks for your help, Ibn Battuta 08:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I can't believe the German's bribed everyone with Cookoo Clocks! Also does it's correctness mean the English is ok, or that it is translated from German correctly?

It would be "the 2006 World Cup", rather than "the World Cup 2006", usually. Neil (not Proto ►) 12:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Iambic tetrameter

I'm writing an article on the slogan "Tippecanoe and Tyler too" and the song it comes from. I just want to confirm from folks who may know better my observation that the slogan apparently exhibits iambic tetrameter. Thanks.--Pharos 17:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

As long as the stress falls so that it's 'Tippécanóe and Týler tóo' — which I believe is right — then it's iambic tetrameter. — Gareth Hughes 18:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The stress pattern of Tippecanoe is Tìppecanóe though (i.e. [ˌtɪpəkəˈnuː]. However, the whole line is For Tippecanoe and Tyler too, which is almost iambic tetrameter (you'd have to lose one of the unstressed syllables of Tippecanoe for it to be perfect iambic tetrameter). —Angr 18:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, how about if I use this line: "The refrain For Tippecanoe and Tyler too is highly euphonious: it exhibits a triple alliteration, an internal rhyme, and nearly forms an iambic tetrameter." Would that be accurate?--Pharos 01:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. —Angr 05:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Free verse poem

Can someone help me find a free verse poem about bullying that is 19 lines long? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.102.217.142 (talk) 18:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC). somone help!!!!!!!!! SOMEONE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It might be easier to write one yourself. Marco polo 01:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

You will find some examples of poems on bullying here [1]. This is just to give you some ideas. These things are very personal, so please do not copy other people's work. I agree with Marco: think about the matter yourself, and write from the heart. It will be far more credible and convincing. Clio the Muse 01:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I used to have such a poem, but somebody beat me up and took it away from me. :-) StuRat 20:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Sinfest Calligraphy

What do these 5 characters mean?

Sinfest Calligraphy

Black Carrot 21:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• 1. Woman
• 2. Man
• 3. God
• 4. Bad/Evil
• 5. Dragon

If I remember the strips correctly, the meanings of the characters was clear in context. 惑乱 分からん 23:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

They were defined in the strip as Hootie, Pimp, Big Daddy, The Dark Side, and Beast o' the East, respectively. Close. Black Carrot 05:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)