Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 August 24

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

August 24

Southern American English

I'm trying to determine about how many native speakers of the Southern American English (SAE) dialect there are. I seem to recall reading the figure "50 million" somewhere, but I haven't been able to locate that reference after a protracted search. Thanks! Dylan (talk) 16:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

The WP article on the Southern United States gives the 2006 estimate of the population as 110 millions. The area on the map of this article seems almost congruent with the states shown in in the Southern American English (minus the dangly bit of Florida). Presumably it depends on your precise definition of SA English, if you include Afro American subdialects and so on. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. You mention the precise issue I'm running into -- not all residents of the South speak SAE (immigrants or transports from other U.S. regions, for example, and AAVE is typically not considered part of SAE; SAE generally refers to white speakers). So I'm looking more for speakers of the specific dialect rather than number of residents where the dialect is spoken, because those can be very different. Dylan (talk) 17:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that you will be able to come up with a solid number. The line between what counts as SAE and what doesn't is hazy, and many speakers will exhibit some SAE features in their speech as well as some non-SAE features. For example, my mother lived in West Texas until she was 8 years old, and her native language was a dialect that had many SAE features but was on the western edge of the SAE dialect zone. However, she then moved to New England, where she spent the rest of her childhood and picked up many non-SAE speech patterns. Given the widespread mobility of Americans, I think that there must be many millions like my mother whose speech is difficult to classify. Marco polo (talk) 19:52, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Why are highways called that?

Why are highways called "high"? Is it because they are high-speed roads, as in you can drive fast on them? Because they are often high in elevation (for example, an overpass), being set off from normal roads? Is it because they were originally the roads of the "high" (the elite) in the same sense that some roads are called "king's roads"? Or some other reason? If possible, please give a source backing up your answer, since false etymologies are so frequent within etymology. —Lowellian (reply) 20:37, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

The OED traces it back to the meaning of 'high' as 'chief, principal, main; special', i.e. highways are the best and most important roads. That's for the original meaning of

A public road open to all passengers, a high road; esp. a main or principal road forming the direct or ordinary route between one town or city and another, as distinguished from a local, branch, or cross road, leading to smaller places off the main road, or connecting two main roads. the king's highway: see quot. 1895.

but I presume the modern American usage is derived from this one. Algebraist 20:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

This is anecdotal, but my impression is that it stems from the "King's Highway" in olde brittan where the highway was an elevated road with the trees cleared for one bowshot from the centre, i.e. a road suitable for nobility to travel on where robbers could be seen and responded to before they could ambush the travellers. Franamax (talk) 21:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Algebraist is right (well, quoting the OED, what do you expect?). "High" just means "main" or important (and has little or nothing to do with physical elevation). Also seen in High Street: the main street in a town, which in turn has spawned the phrase "High Street shops" or "High Street businesses" referring to the main, visble businesses. Gwinva (talk) 23:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

There's a major thoroughfare in Melbourne that was apparently named after a high street somewhere. The namers in their wisdom called it High Street Road. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe they consulted the people who named a Toronto thoroughfare Avenue Road. OtherDave (talk) 02:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

High Street Road and Avenue Road are good names. Compare to the street names in this district in Calgary, Alberta:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?client=firefox-a&channel=s&hl=en&q=calgary+alberta&ie=UTF8&ll=51.145756,-114.218159&spn=0.006798,0.013819&z=16

Wanderer57 (talk) 03:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

What drugs was that person on when they came up with that absurd system? -- JackofOz (talk) 06:07, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I like how there's an "85 St NW" tucked in the middle of all that royalty. And to remain slightly on topic, I grew up near a "Street Road" and currently live in a completely different place, near "West Broad Street Road".--LarryMac | Talk 19:40, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

And yet the term "high street" isn't used in Australia. We have "main streets". Not far from High Street Road is another road called "Through Road" (that's its name - imagine the confusion if it was a "no through road". Fortunately, we're not quite that crazy.) -- JackofOz (talk) 04:15, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Geometrie

Anyone know where I can find an english translation of Descartes' La Geometrie? Black Carrot (talk) 21:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

These guys will sell you a copy for 10 USD. Or do you want a free one? Algebraist 21:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Free would be nice. Black Carrot (talk) 02:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Try this. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 03:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

That's a good start, but it seems to be incomplete. Do you know where the rest of it is? Black Carrot (talk) 10:35, 25 August 2008 (UTC)