Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 August 31

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August 31

Plurals

What's the plural of 'piccolo'? Avnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 00:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

In Italian, piccoli. In English, piccolos. See wikt:piccolo. Algebraist 00:13, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

What's the pulral of 'marquess'? I'd like that particular spelling. Avnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 05:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Marquesses, I believe. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:05, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Terms of endearment in Ireland

What are some English words for loved ones that would be used in Ireland? (In other words, non Irish language words) --70.167.58.6 (talk) 01:25, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

"Sweetling", "Dearheart"... not sure if they're Irish but they sound sort of old-fashioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.239.177.28 (talk) 01:52, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

English, yes, but wouldn't cushla also be used? Corvus cornix_talk 05:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Do anglicized spellings of Irish words count as "non Irish language words" as requested by the OP? Cushla is just an anglicized spelling of "cuisle". There's also "mavourneen", but that too is just an anglicized spelling of "mo mhuirnín". —Angr 06:34, 31 August 2008 (UTC)"

There's also 'acushla' and 'my acushla', as in "Acushla, my acushla, thou art beautiful!" But acushla is another version of cuisle. Strawless (talk) 13:46, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe what I'm asking for are any regional specific English slang words used around in and around Ireland for loved ones or people one finds attractive. (Something outrageous and fun like Aussie slang?) I don't consider anglicized Irish words slang. --71.158.215.87 (talk) 16:21, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I can't think of any slang words for loved ones, but here are a few slang words I've heard for similar things. I've no idea if they are used in Ireland or not:

• Attractive: bangin', blazing, fine, foxy, hot, smoking, skeeza, mint, phat (pretty hot and tempting)
  
• Friend: mate, bro, buddy, pal, boyz, chum, crony, patron, amiga, amigo
• Girlfriend / boyfriend: baby, babygirl, BF, GF, boo, breezy, skillet, squeeze JessicaThunderbolt 18:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

a-...

Hello. When the House is rockin', don't come a-knockin'. Or, some old hippie came a-hoppin' through our apartment. What does the bolded mean? Thanks in advance. --Mayfare (talk) 19:03, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know where it came from, it certainly is not formal English, but it doesn't really change the meaning at all. It's just kind of there; I believe that it is used either in certain dialects (American, I don't know about other countries), or intentionally by someone who just wants to make his wording sound a certain way (informal, or has some ring to it). I hear it a lot in songs and poetry. Maybe somebody can give a better explanation of how and why it came into existence, but for interpretation purposes, I think it's safe to just ignore the "a-". Hope that helps, Falconus^{p t c} 20:50, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

If I may piggyback on the original question with a related one: is this prefix related to that in afloat, abuzz, aflutter, afire, aghast, agape, alive, aloud, aware? Tesseran (talk) 20:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Looking at the OED has mostly answered my question (though the situation seems to be much more complicated than I understood. One definition, excerpted below, may be what the original poster was looking for. Tesseran (talk) 21:16, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

a-, prefix1

Orig. a variant of OR- prefix, showing an unstressed form of the prefix used in verbal compounds

... Hence, a- came to be regarded as vaguely intensive, rhetorical, euphonic, or archaic, and was prefixed by Spenser and other archaists to words both of Old English and Romance origin for stylistic purposes.

With verbs, implying motion onward or away from a position; hence (originally with verbs of motion) adding intensity.

a, prep.1

Variant of ON prep. with loss of the final consonant -n, reflecting an unstressed pronunciation of the word in proclitic use; compare A- prefix3, AWAY adv., ARIGHT adv.

The separate preposition a ceased to be used in standard English after about 1700, being replaced by the full on, in, or the various prepositions which represent them in modern idiom, surviving only in a few set uses from branch II., such as to go a begging, to set a going, and in temporal distributive phrases, as twice a day, once a year, where it had been early identified with the indefinite article (see A adj. 4). It also survived in a large number of combinations, where it was treated as a prefix to the governed word, and the whole as a compound adverb. Cross-references are given below to a selection of these (see senses 2 , 3 , 5 , 6 , 8). Compare A- prefix3.

It's the second entry. kwami (talk) 18:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Good question... A quick scan of the article A gave me that the prefix a just means 'not,' such as atypical, but that certainly does not make any sense in the above words... So I have no idea about that usage. --Falconus^{p t c} 21:01, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

It comes from Scotland. It's also prevalent in Appalachian English. --Kjoonlee 21:07, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Participles found in present tense progressive aspect verb forms often have a vowel prefix commonly written with an "a" followed by a hyphen, and this is pronounced as a schwa sound. An example is "I'm a-goin' now." Cf. the composite present of Scottish Gaelic, as in Tha mi a-smochach, or "I'm smoking."

Quoted from the above article. --Kjoonlee 21:09, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict): In Old English this prefix (before gerunds / participles) indicated that the action described by the verb is taking place currently. A-knocking thus means knocking at this very moment of speaking. You find it frequently in Dickens and, of course, in the well known carol of the Twelve Days of Xmas. Apparently it is also used in Appalachian English, though I just read that and can´t verify it. Maybe a linguist can explain why it survived there whilst elsewhere it is - at most - used jokingly. -Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:12, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

In Twelve Days of Christmas, I suspect it's put in for rhyming scansion mainly. Not that it's out of place or contrived, but if it had had a different tune, it might just as well have been "ten lords leaping ... eight maids milking", etc. I have no time to research this question, as I'm off to see a performance of Murder in the Cathedral. So, in a way, I'm about to go a-Becketing.  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 22:55, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

It's the second entry from the OED. We have an independent phrase in Modern English with the exact same form, "on-going". Old "on-going" though meant that you were in (= "on") the process of going: "I'm on-going to the market". That contracted to "I'm a-going to the market" and finally "I'm going to the market". "a-going" has survived dialectically, in set phrases, and in literature. kwami (talk) 18:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

The OED is right: it's an archaic form of "on". It's used in Scots, which may very well be the reason it's used in Appalachia, but there really is no way it's derived from Scottish Gaelic. Marnanel (talk) 17:58, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

eyes are bigger than one's stomach

What is the origin of this idiom? I have heard of a similar saying in Chinese and I was wondering whether if one was the source of the other or whether if this is an example of convergent idiomizing. Are there similar sayings in other languages? Coolotter88 (talk) 19:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

There's a similar saying in Norwegian: "Magen blir mett før øynene". Word-by-word translation: "The stomach is satiated before the eyes [are]". --NorwegianBlue ^talk 19:48, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

The Wiktionary entry ([1]) implies that Dutch and French (and possibly Portuguese, if my guesses are correct) have identical idioms. There certainly exists a German phrase which is a literal translation. Wiktionary also has versions in Maltese and Vietnamese, but I have no idea what they say. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:14, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

In Polish, we say jeść oczami, or "to eat with one's eyes". — Kpalion^(talk) 22:30, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

The most common version of this idiom in Portuguese, "tens mais olhos que barriga" (you have more eyes than stomach) is kinda stupid, coz people do have more eyes than stomach (two eyes, one stomach) ;-). Húsönd 22:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I do not speak Polish, but I think that "to eat with one´s eyes" has a different meaning, ie. that the presentation of the food will affect the appetite. It certainly will affect the price of a dish ordered in a restaurant when instead of a bowl with nondescript goo you are served Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and SPAM. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

A person whose eyes are bigger than his stomach might find he's digging his grave with his fork. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:23, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Twiggy? Clarityfiend (talk) 17:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC)