Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 December 28

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December 28

Russian lettering

In File:Otma1906.jpg, I can't read part of the first word: Август_йшія. —Tamfang (talk) 00:25, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I think the missing letter is a Yat (Ѣ, ѣ). See also Yat reform. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:43, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

According to the article on Russian Wikipedia (subsection on usage in Russian before the reform), the letter was used in comparative and superlative suffixes (for example "сильнѣйшій" and "сильнѣйше" meant "stronger" and "strongest"). I guess "Августѣйшія До́чери" means "The Most August Daughters". The term "most august" is often seen in translations of reference paid to members of the Tsar's family. ---Sluzzelin talk 02:17, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! —Tamfang (talk) 04:52, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

By the way, is there a Unicode position for the cursive or italic version of "ѣ"? I wanted to post what it looks like, but couldn't find it. Posting "ѣ" in cursive just gives us ѣ. (To compare with Tamfang's image: the middle fonts here are in italics. As you can see, the cursive form of the minuscule "ѣ" looks quite different from the block letter variety). ---Sluzzelin talk 02:53, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

So you (and I) are reading it in an oblique font rather than true italic. Looking through my installed fonts I find a few italics with that form: Cochin, Gill Sans, Hoefler Text, Linux Libertine (but not Libertine Bold Italic); also, oddly, Marker Felt Wide but not Marker Felt Thin. —Tamfang (talk) 04:52, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Unicode allocates codepoints for italic or cursive forms of letters vanishingly rarely, usually because they have a separate life as mathematical symbols. Marnanel (talk) 14:10, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Slang from a BBC television show

I was watching an old episode of Top Gear last night. At one point, James May comments on the car that he has bought for a challenge by saying something like "I've bought a bit of a ..." It's this last word that I'm not sure I heard correctly. It sounded like he said "...bit of a pub". What he was trying to get across was that he bought a car which was rubbish, not very good, unreliable, etc. Could someone explain to this American what he actually said? Was it actually pub? And how do pubs relate to poor quality? Dismas|^(talk) 11:00, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe "dud" – although that word has currency in the US too, doesn't it? I don't think there is any such expression as "a bit of a pub". Lfh (talk) 11:10, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Isn't banger the British slang term for a crappy car?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:34, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

A "banger" is a sausage, isn't it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:09, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

It's both. 90.195.179.244 (talk) 22:37, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

It's entirely possible that it was "dud" and my ears just didn't pick it up right. And yes, we Americans use that word as well. Dismas|^(talk) 11:36, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd say he's come up with a variation on the theme of being sold a pup, which means to have bought something worth a lot less than you paid for it. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 11:56, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

No, I think your original instinct was right, he did say something sounding like "bit of a pub". When I watched the episode (can't remember how long ago) I remember not being exactly sure what he meant. Could it be bit of a "pug"? Perhaps he was referring to the car as a dog, or even worse, a Peugeot! ;) Can you describe what happened in last night's episode? I'll track down the episode number and watch it again to re-confirm what was said, maybe give a bit more context. Zunaid 11:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

If anyone can post a link to the episode (and the time in the episode he says it - I don't want to watch it all).....? --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 12:04, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Possibly "a bit of a pup"? --Nicknack009 (talk) 12:14, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

It was definitely a "pup". I've seen him say it a dozen or more times on Dave. Time to go a-huntin' for the episode... 90.193.232.215 (talk) 12:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

* cough * -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 17:42, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfuDiGu4jIA&t=2m50s 90.193.232.215 (talk) 12:42, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, definitely 'pup' (not a word I've heard often in the UK for a poor quality car) but he goes on to say ". . . after a few miles it turned into a complete mongrel." thus confirming the canine metaphor. Richard Avery (talk) 19:50, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm with Jack of Oz (above) - "being sold a pup" is to be ripped off; "buying a pup" isn't a million miles away. Alansplodge (talk) 23:48, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

OP here. Yep, that's the episode in question. Guess I should have pointed out that I was watching an old episode. Thanks for the explanations!! I do appreciate it. Dismas|^(talk) 00:25, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

What language is that? BEWARE POSSIBLE MALWARE LINK

OP indef'd
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
What language is this: http://www.video-search.de.tl www.only-hit.de.tl? Thanks and Greetings --N23.4 (talk) 17:29, 28 December 2010 (UTC) German. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 17:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC) Do You can German? --N23.4 (talk) 17:47, 28 December 2010 (UTC) Look, N23.4, your userpage says you speak German as your native language. I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know we've had questions here before asking us to click on some iffy links leading to supposed German music sites resulting in a potentially bigger hit-count for the page at best and PC contamination at worst. To other users, I suspect this is not in good faith, don't click on the link. N23.4, if I am wrong I apologize and ask you to copy paste the text you're interested in here and we can translate it. TomorrowTime (talk) 17:53, 28 December 2010 (UTC) (EC X 2) Thanks, TT, I did sort of suspect that. It was obviously German and there are only a couple of lines on the page (which actually provides zero information about what the page is meant to be about, i.e. the charts). Even Google Translate would have a hard time messing this one up. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 17:59, 28 December 2010 (UTC) This is then reliable website for charts for "German" I'm look Chartssites for germany. --N23.4 (talk) 17:58, 28 December 2010 (UTC) Perhaps this spam link should be added to the "blacklist" page? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:02, 28 December 2010 (UTC) Sounds like a good idea. N23.4 has already tried spamming the help desk with this link. This is obviously not done in good faith. --Saddhiyama (talk) 18:08, 28 December 2010 (UTC) The German userpage of N23.4 reveals that the site linked is made by N23.4 himself. So luckily this seems to be a case of blatant advertising, rather than an attempt at baiting unsuspecting users into a malware infested site. --Saddhiyama (talk) 18:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC) URL de-linked. --LarryMac | Talk 18:31, 28 December 2010 (UTC) I don't know if this is related, guys, but my computer has been behaving oddly since I clicked on that link (amongst other things I had a random and sudden restart and windows live messenger opened with a request to one of my contacts to share webcam). I will fix this, of course, and as I say I do not know if it is related. In any case, I would recommend the OP for a block or ban for what has been demonstrated as an attempt to trick users into clicking a link (for whatever reason). --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 18:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) The editor should immediately be indef'd. I have made a request for same, at an appropriate venue. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:40, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

near and hear

AFAICT most people pronounce near and hear with /iɹ/ (or close enough, to rhyme with fear and steer and here). I grew up pronouncing them with /eɹ/ (or close enough, to rhyme with bear and stare and hair). (I grew up in the '80s in New York.) Am I alone, or this is a real dialect?—msh210℠ 20:39, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

That is new to me. What part of New York? I grew up in the 70s on Long Island, and I have the standard pronunciation. Marco polo (talk) 02:49, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

We have a little bit on cheer-chair merger. (Though the New York rhyme points in the other direction, according to that section).---Sluzzelin talk 03:09, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't able to find any online text (outside Wikipedia and its mirrors) mentioning the cheer-chair merger in connection with New York dialect. I found a few references on New Zealand English. It is possible that this phenomenon is known by a different name too. ---Sluzzelin talk 03:24, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I doubt it's the cheer–chair merger as described in our article thereon, as that seems to apply to all such pairs, whereas mine only (AFAICT) applies/d to near and hear.—msh210℠ on a public computer (talk) 03:58, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Brooklyn.—msh210℠ on a public computer (talk) 03:58, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

That is curious. I don't think that that pronunciation is common in Brooklyn, though I could be wrong. What is interesting is that your pronunciation was probably the standard English pronunciation during Elizabethan times, when the Great Vowel Shift was not yet complete. This kind of relict pronunciation tends to occur in places with conservative phonology, such as Ireland, Scotland, parts of the North of England, or Appalachia. Are your parents from one of those places? Marco polo (talk) 15:19, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

No, they were both raised in New York City.—msh210℠ 20:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC)