Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 September 29

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

September 29

Surely this was two errors in one sentence?

Resolved

 – Imagine Reason (talk) 18:41, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

[inside a restaurant] ... "A fine idea," said Shadow. "Thanks."

He walked across the melting snow, from the Culvers [the restaurant] parking lot to the gas station. - American Gods, pg. 124, by Neil Gaiman

It seems to me that Gaiman had meant: He walked through melting snow, across the Culvers parking lot to the gas station. Imagine Reason (talk) 01:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Neither 'error' jumped out at me as wrong, and rereading the sentence they still don't seem wrong. Lexicografía (talk) 01:37, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Me neither. When was say someone walked "across" the snow, we're not meaning it in the same sense as Jesus walked on the water. There is obviously some degree of sinking into the snow, and footprints will be left. It's only when the snow is very soft and deep, and a significant part of the body is obscured, that we talk about walking "through" the snow. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 02:54, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Poetic license. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 03:02, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Texts can often have deliberately multiple/ambiguous meanings. Given that Shadow is arguably a supernatural being, Gaiman may be subtly suggesting that he was actually walking on the snow without leaving footprints. (87.81 posting from . . .)87.82.229.195 (talk) 11:15, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

And why have you assumed that the entire route to the gas station is in the Culvers parking lot, rather than that Gaiman has a command of simple prepositions? 109.155.33.219 (talk) 11:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Exactly. There is a parking lot, there is a gas station, there is a strip of grass or something between them. This grass is covered with snow, which is melting. He walked across it. Nothing even slightly peculiar about it. --Anonymous, 05:44 UTC, September 30, 2010.

French politesse

What is a polite way to say, to a girl's close family or friend (for example, a father or brother or sister, etc), in French, that you do not find the girl attractive? "Elle est laide" would be wildly inappropriate (laid being a synonym for hideous!) but neither would the more muted "elle est moche", in my opinion. Thanks. PS: if there is a way that I can avoid saying she is plain, i.e., say she is attractive, while still saying I'm not attracted to her (and avoid making the other party think I really am attracted to her, of course, because I'm not), I would prefer it. 24.92.78.167 (talk) 01:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the politest thing in any language is not to say anything negative about the girl at all. If pressed, you could talk about your own experience, and say that while she's a lovely girl, you did not feel particularly attracted to her. If pressed on why that was, they are now the ones being impolite, but you could say that some like vichysoisse, but you prefer coq au vin, and leave it at that. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 01:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

OK thnx, but 1. I am more interested in how I would respond if directly asked, and 2. I would like the actual wording in French or a general frame, because while my French is passable my knowledge of French culture is lacking. Thnx again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.78.167 (talk) 02:56, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

If you find "she's not my type" acceptable in English, then "elle n'est pas mon genre de fille" might work. It's colloquial and, though not necessarily within the bounds of decorum, as explained by 202, it does ascribe half of the argument to one's personal and subjective taste, without referring to her unattractiveness in any general way. French media translated Justin Bieber's "not my type" as "pas mon genre de fille" [1]. ---Sluzzelin talk 03:14, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the suggestions made. And while I can't help with the French language, I'd like to add that if someone were to actually press you to answer such a question bluntly, it would be them committing the indiscretion, and you should refuse to answer at all, if possible. And, unless that person is much your senior, you might well advise them that they were being crude. Now if, say, the girl's father were to get drunk and make such an embarrassing scene in front of family, then I suppose you'd better try to wriggle out of it delicately, to save his face, but really, he should be ashamed of himself the next morning. (And his wife would probably tell him as much in no uncertain terms.)--Rallette (talk) 09:23, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The only polite thing in any language is to say to her family that she is so wonderful in every way that you would give anything to be able to marry her. To her privately you say that she is very beautiful, but your personalities do not mesh. Never tell a woman that she is anything other than beautiful, even if you are sure she knows it. Looie496 (talk) 17:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I would say "Bien qu'elle soit loin d'être désagréable, je n'ai pas de penchant pour elle" or "Bien […], je n'éprouve pas d'affection particulière pour elle." — AldoSyrt (talk) 18:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Meaning of multiple 1s

Can anyone explain what is the meaning of "111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111"? I found an old forum discussion here. Can anyone explain what does it mean??? --Goa Legend Tse (talk) 05:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

It's a joke about typing. When someone wants to make a lot of exclamation points (!!!!!!), sometimes they let go of the SHIFT button before the exclamation button, thus leaving some 1s on the end (!!!!!!111). rʨanaɢ (talk) 06:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Lots of people use it sarcastically as well, inserting "one" and "eleven" !1!1!!!oneone!1!11eleven!11!!!1 Lexicografía (talk) 11:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget eleventy!!!!111 -- the Great Gavini 18:39, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

How could I have?/??eleven!??!!1/!?1/one!!?11eleventy!!/??! Lexicografía (talk) 18:49, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

you guys!!!!111~~ rʨanaɢ (talk) 18:54, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

ehehehe!!11!!!repunit!!1eleventy1!!11!!oneone!!11 Lexicografía (talk) 18:57, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Goa Legend Tse, you may be interested in the article "Repunit". -- Wavelength (talk) 18:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

In all seriousness, this happens often on the Internet, both intentionally and unintentionally; 1, one, eleven, ~, @, etc. are substituted for !, and / for ?. Lexicografía (talk) 19:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Similar to zOMG, where a person supposedly missed the -shift- key. schyler (talk) 21:42, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The !!1! exclamation points are often found in l33t, though I am surprised that article doesn't mention them. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:22, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

ghost

why is there an h in the word ghost? has the pronunciation of the first constant been different than /g/ in the past? Just Omer • Talk 14:50, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, there's a theory that it was introduced by William Caxton who was used to Dutch/Flemish orthography. See Caxton and the English language. If you google "Caxton" + "ghost" + "gh", you get a number of sites [2] and books [3] presenting this explanation in more detail. ---Sluzzelin talk 14:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Says EtymOnline: The gh- spelling appeared early 15c. in Caxton, influenced by Flem. and M.Du. gheest, but was rare in English before mid-16c. Lexicografía (talk) 15:12, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

It's not like many words (e.g. "right", "night") that have the "h" as a relic of ancient fricative consonants; Old English had "riht" and "niht" for those two words, but "ghost" is derived from "gást". Nyttend (talk) 04:22, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

What does "bum bandit" mean in American English?

Being British I find the title of [this 1931 Betty Boop cartoon], "The Bum Bandit", hilarious. I am sure it must mean something very different to Americans. What does it mean? -- Q Chris (talk) 17:18, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

You could look the term up in Wiktionary, for starters. Lexicografía (talk) 17:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

In that context if basically means "hapless" - poor guy thinks he's a tough hombre, but gets corralled by his uber-macho wife/girlfriend and dragged home like a misbehaving schoolboy. The sad fate of so many of us in this world... . It's interesting to note that the 'bimbo' in this era always referred to a man (usually a not-too-smart, weak-willed, skirt-chasing drunken lout). It's fascinating how words change over time. --Ludwigs2 18:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

OED online has:

1. ‘The buttocks, the part on which we sit’ (J.); the posteriors.
2. Applied opprobriously to a person.

I think the second is meant in this context. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 19:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

"Bum" generally refers to a homeless person/loser/someone who contributes nothing to society. Rimush (talk) 19:42, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

"Bum bandit" is also a slang term for "homosexual" (at least, if you're a little kid and this is the most vulgar thing you can think of). Adam Bishop (talk) 23:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

To an American, the term "bum" for "buttocks" is definitely a British term. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

"Bum" is an adjective here, as in "bum deal", so none of that stuff really applies. Looie496 (talk) 01:14, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

If you actually watch the cartoon (which is fun;), it becomes clear that bum n. (2) applies. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 01:32, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Rather different to the British meaning of "bum bandit". -- Q Chris (talk) 07:52, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I'm rather surprised the OED is so coy about this. People sometimes talk about sticking things up their own or someone else's bum; which is obviously not a reference to buttocks per se, but rather to what lies between them. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 08:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

As an adjective, bum just means "ineffective, incompetent, low-quality, poor" in American English. To an American, the word bum does not suggest buttocks unless the person using the word is known to be British, or unless someone uses a phrase like "sitting on my bum", which an American would perceive as a British affectation if used in this way by another American. Marco polo (talk) 17:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree for the most part, with one major exception: in the U.S., I've known several (female) schoolteachers to use it to mean the posterior, perhaps as a contraction of "bottom". E.g. if a bunch of kindergarteners are corralled to a classroom space with the intent of sitting them on the floor to calmly be read to, and one or two of them continue to be rambunctious, they might be told "Sit, on the floor, on your bum!" But outside of that, I don't think it's commonly used that way here. per above discussion, the first thing I thought of when I read bum bandit was "Oh, that's just a slightly more effete way of saying ass pirate. ☯.ZenSwashbuckler.☠ 20:14, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't doubt you, but I've never heard an American schoolteacher use the word that way, and if she did, the poor kids probably wouldn't know what she meant. Marco polo (talk) 20:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

No, most kids' teachers say "bottom" or "rear" or "sitter". I've never heard "bum" in America to refer to the buttocks without being a "British affectation". Lexicografía (talk) 20:20, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

For an example of the common American usage of "bum", run a search for "bums" in the text of History of the Brooklyn Dodgers, an American sports team who were nicknamed "Dem Bums" for quite a while. Nyttend (talk) 04:27, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Heh, I never expected Canadian and American usage to differ here. While a bum can be a homeless person or whatever, it is also a normal term for the buttocks. I suppose it is normally used with children though. Adam Bishop (talk) 06:05, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Was LaFawnduh a real name given before Napoleon Dynamite came out?

Sources would be great. When I type the name in a Google search, all I can see are references to the movie and the eponymous character in it. 20.137.18.50 (talk) 18:56, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

LaFanda appears to be a real name, though pretty rare (LaWanda is more common). When I saw the movie I assumed "LaFawnduh" was a misspelling, though that doesn't make sense given that Kip communicated with her in writing. -- BenRG (talk) 03:28, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Translation request from English to Arabic

There is a block of text that I would like to have translated from English to Arabic.

It is: "Air France's head office is located in the Roissypôle complex on the grounds of Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport and in the commune of Tremblay-en-France, Seine-Saint-Denis, near the city of Paris.[24][25][26][27][28] The 130,000 square metres (1,400,000 sq ft) complex was completed in December 1995. The French firm Groupement d'Etudes et de Méthodes d'Ordonnancement (GEMO) managed the project. The architect was Valode & Pistre and the design consultants were Sechaud-Boyssut and Trouvin. The project cost 137,000,000 euros[26] (less than 700 million francs[29]). The runways of the airport are visible from the building.[30]"

I want this translation request, to be posted at ar:الخطوط الجوية الفرنسية#المقر الرئيسي, to be done as soon as possible so I can re-upload, on the Arabic Wikipedia, a fair use image that would accompany that text. This fair use image is already used on the English Wikipedia at en:File:Air France HQ.png - By providing the text, people will be given a reason to need to know what the building looks like. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:44, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

• A user has fulfilled this request. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)