Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 February 26

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February 26

Japanese character readings

Hi, the following text is from the kanji article:

The main guideline is that a single kanji followed by okurigana (hiragana characters that are part of the word) – as used in native verbs and adjectives – always indicates kun'yomi, ...

Is "always" correct? Are there really no exceptions? My old talk page comment attracted no replies, so I would like to ask here. 81.159.110.25 (talk) 18:37, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it's correct. As for the verb 動じる/dōjiru/be upset, "dō" is "onyomi". 同 in 同じる or 同ずる is also onyomi. I cannot think of other words for now. But I will correct the article and the okurigana article. Oda Mari (talk) 06:29, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Oops! I notice 動じる and 同じる are probably not native verbs. So "always" might be correct. I'll check it. Oda Mari (talk) 06:43, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

I think it is correct. I could not come up any counterexamples and looked for something authorative. Okurigana no tuskekata (Japanese) by the Cabinet of Japan notes "3. For independent words and compound words that contain jion, jion part does not require okurigana..." Jion means naturalized Chinese pronunciation of kanji[1], i.e. on'yomi. --Kusunose 07:58, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

How are verbs like 動じる and 同じる not native? Where do they come from if not Japan? I had in mind also 感じる. Is that another "non-native" example? 86.160.85.33 (talk) 12:02, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

じる is a variant of する, i.e., these are N-suru verbs in disguise. There are also cases like 気づく that I'm not sure how to classify. These constructions are pronounced as one word, and no one would romanize them as "kan jiru" or "ki zuku", but I guess the kana are technically not okurigana. Even 気をつけて is pronounced as one word... -- BenRG (talk) 00:40, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

気づく is 気付く; its okurigana is く, not づく. --Kusunose 02:55, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh, OK, I didn't know that じる was a variant of する. Thanks for that ... 86.160.85.33 (talk) 02:59, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

What language are the subtitles in this Flight of the Conchords video?

www.vimeo.com/26736666

I was thinking Turkish at first but a lot of the words don't appear in my Turkish dictionary. Could it be another, similar language? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.228.83.134 (talk) 19:11, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

It's almost certainly Turkish. The orthography is Turkish, the uploader says she is located in Istanbul. Keep in mind that Turkish is a highly inflected language (nouns and verbs have lots of endings on them), which is probably why you don't see the words exactly as is in your dictionary. I punched a few random ones into Google Translate and found them in Turkish. rʨanaɢ (talk) 19:22, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

It's Turkish. --Theurgist (talk) 20:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Arabic help

I found: File:Sharm el Sheikh map.png on the Commons, but there is no Arabic version. What are the Arabic words for the following?

• Main map: Ras Nasrani, Airport, Naama Bay, Old Sharm, Marina, Sulphur Springs, Gulf of Suez, Ras Mohammed National Park, Ras Mohammed, Strait of Tiran, Red Sea, Tiran Island
• Inset: Mediterranean Sea, Cairo, Suez Canal, Port Said, Ismailia, Suez, Sinai, Egypt, St Catherine, El-Tor, area of Map, Taba, Nuweiba, Dahab, Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia

That way, I can request for somebody to make a map in Arabic.

The clear version is at File:Sharm el Sheikh map clear.png, so the user will be working from that.

Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 20:17, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

A lot of them you can find in the Arabic Wikipedia articles, but here is a list:

Ras Nasrani: رأس نصراني

Airport: مطار

Naama Bay: خليج نعمة

Old Sharm: Not sure about this, since "Sharm el-Sheik" already means "Old Sharm", but presumably this is the old part of the city, which seems to be "شرم القديم"

Marina: مارينا

Sulphur Springs: I'm not sure if this is a proper name, but I guess "عين كبريتية" would be the name of a generic sulphur spring

Gulf of Suez: خليج السويس

Ras Mohammed National Park: محمية رأس محمد

Ras Mohammed: رأس محمد

Strait of Tiran: مضيق_تيران

Red Sea: البحر الأحمر

Tiran Island: جزيرة تيران

Mediterranean Sea: البحر الأبيض المتوسط

Cairo: القاهرة

Suez Canal: قناة السويس

Port Said: بورسعيد

Ismailia: الإسماعيلية

Suez: السويس

Sinai: سيناء

Egypt: مصر

St Catherine: سانت كاترين

El-Tor: الطور

area of Map: Not 100% sure, but I think it's "مساحة الخريطة"

Taba: طابا

Nuweiba: نويبع

Dahab: دهب

Israel: إسرائيل

Jordan: الأردن

Saudi Arabia: العربية السعودية

Adam Bishop (talk) 21:12, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Adam! To make sure, I would like for a native speaker to look over the few which you had trouble with, before I submit a formal request in the Commons graphics lab WhisperToMe (talk) 23:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

I made a post at Commons:Commons:الميدان#Arabic_translations to confirm some of the translations WhisperToMe (talk) 00:35, 29 February 2012 (UTC)