Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 October 3

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October 3

Ibidem

In the entry for Helge von Koch, it gives his birth location, birth date, ibidem, and his death date. Is the ibidem supposed to mean that he died in the same place that he was born? I haven't seen it used this way, so I just want to be sure. Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 11:35, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

That's new to me too, but I'd interpret it the way you did, Dismas. Until I read the infobox, where I see he died in Danderyd Municipality, "a municipality just north of Stockholm". He can't have died both in Stockholm and somewhere north of Stockholm, unless he was exhibiting bilocation at the time of his death. But those Swedes are pretty advanced. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 11:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

[Edit conflict] Yes, I suppose so, though I would suggest removing it and simply replacing it with "Stockholm" in the interest of avoiding jargon. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 11:46, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Using the single word, ibidem, to replace a different single word, Stockholm, seems a little pointless. Especially if it's wrong anyway.--Jeffro77 (talk) 12:14, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

The other thing wrong about it is that the lede is supposed to show dates of birth and death but not places. Those details are for the infobox, if any, or the text proper. I know it's widely ignored, but there is a MOS ruling about it somewhere. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 12:31, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Somebody's getting a little fancy-schmancy. Ibid. is typically used only in lists of references, to avoid restating the entire reference again and again. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:22, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks all! It was new to me and then I also noticed that it wasn't the same location in the infobox which further confused me. Dismas|^(talk) 18:31, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

However, it is best not to use ibid in Wikipedia, Wikipedia:Citing sources#Citing multiple pages of the same source. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 18:35, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

German biographies, including Wikipedia articles, often use ebenda to mean "in the same place" when a person died in the same town where he was born. Maybe Swedish has a similar word. At any rate, I suspect whoever wrote this article thought you could use ibidem that way in English, but you can't. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:07, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

To those of us who worked on the old IBM computers, a better term for death place would be ABEND. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:49, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Presumably, this would typically occur in the evening.--Jeffro77 (talk) 02:15, 4 October 2013 (UTC)