Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 October 5

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October 5

Pronunciation of Camberwell

A book I'm reading talks about the part of London called Camberwell. Sometimes in England, not all letters in a placename are pronounced, and I would like to know if it is pronounced as spelled (with 3 syllables) as it would be in the US, or is slurvianized to "Cam'brel." Edison (talk) 03:50, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

It's pronounced exactly as spelled.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:27, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

So is Camberwell, Victoria, Australia. (In case anyone cares.) HiLo48 (talk) 07:50, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I care. I used to live not far from there, and the Burke Rd strip was one of my favourite weekend haunts. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:31, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

You can hear Gertie Millar singing about it here. Apart from the old-fashioned quality of the "a" vowel (the recording is nearly 100 years old) that is how it's pronounced now. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 18:52, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

A fine old recording, and very helpful. She says it something like "Cahm-buh-well" as opposed the the US pronunciation where the "r" would be sounded by a typical midwestern speaker. Thanks. Edison (talk) 19:28, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Slightly tangential to the topic, but there is a butterfly named after it: the Camberwell Beauty. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.213.83.178 (talk) 20:59, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

As a native Londoner, I agree that it is pronounced as spelt, with the emphasis on the first syllable, like camber. Local people speaking in the Cockney dialect, might barely pronounce the double "L" at the end, replacing it with a "W" consonant. I'm sure there's a linguistic term that describes this; however, it is regarded as non-standard. Alansplodge (talk) 21:48, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I see that our "Cockney" article calls it "Vocalisation of dark L" and gives the example [ˈmɪowɔː] for Millwall. Gosh, I wish I was that clever. Alansplodge (talk) 21:55, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

For future reference see also List of places in the United Kingdom and Ireland with counterintuitive pronunciations.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 05:55, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Excellent! I have noted that in my sandbox for future reference. Edison (talk) 22:34, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

"Churro" used as an adjective in European Spanish

Hi there, everyone:

I live in Spain and speak Spanish as a second language, but am more used to Latin American variants of the language than how the language is spoken in Spain. Where I lived before, "churro" was used as an adjective to describe someone who was good looking, but my housemate (from Extremadura) here used the word in a different context - he said that madrileños speak in a "churro" way. What does this mean?

All the best, --31.4.63.225 (talk) 12:51, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

According to the Spanish Wiktionary article churro#Adjetivo, it can refer to people speaking Spanish with a distinct Aragonese influence. This sense of "churro" is grouped with other meanings pertaining to Churra sheep and their wool. The meaning of "attractive" is indeed limited to "Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Río de la Plata", one entry lower in that article. ---Sluzzelin talk 13:04, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Aha, the Spanish article on Castellano churro is far more informative regarding your housemate's use of "churro". ---Sluzzelin talk 13:17, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, Sluzzelin. I heard about Castellano churro before, but I don't think this is the meaning he was referring to - it is spoken mostly in Valencia, and he was talking about Madrid people. He also said that Madrid people act churro, whatever that means. All the best, --178.139.99.190 (talk) 16:00, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure he wasn't saying 'chulo', a word very much associated with Madrid. It means 'cool', 'good looking', 'well-mannered', 'well dressed'. In some contexts it is a bit like 'cockney' is to London. The phrase "Que chulo" means "whoa, great" or "that's terrific" or "really cool". Richard Avery (talk) 09:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)