Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 December 12

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December 12

Is there a derogatory term for homosexual women (lesbians) as fag?

So, the term, fag, is used against gay men, because they are perceived to be effeminate. Is there a derogatory term for extremely effeminate women or extremely - um, what is the masculine term of "effeminate"? Emasculate? Though, they both mean the same thing, which is to be weak. 140.254.245.235 (talk) 17:47, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Your question is not too clear, but old pre-1970s working-class lesbianism was based around an opposition between "butch" and "femme" roles. The words "butch" and "femme" haven't always been considered politically correct since the 1970s, but the modern term "lipstick lesbian" is quasi-equivalent to femme. An insulting term implying that a lesbian is too masculine is "bull dyke". Not sure whether there are insulting terms implying that a lesbian is too feminine... AnonMoos (talk) 17:55, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Isn't there a slight distinction between "femme" and "lipstick"? "Lipstick lesbians" are supposedly attracted to each other, aren't they? Contact Basemetal here 21:23, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

You mean like straight men? μηδείς (talk) 04:00, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

• The lesbian equivalent of "fag" is "dyke". See Dyke (slang). --Jayron32 21:30, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

  Had the OP just asked what the lesbian equivalent of "fag" was, had he (or she) not made things more complicated with further unclear requirements, this of course would have been everyone's immediate and obvious answer. As to the other question (if indeed there was another question) "emasculate" is an adj. meaning "lacking virility" (and also a verb meaning "to deprive of virility" either literally or figuratively). It only applies to men. It is not clear what the OP meant by the masculine equivalent of "effeminate". "Effeminate" is also a term which is applied only to men. I've never heard a woman called "effeminate". Contact Basemetal here 22:00, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

On that point, "macho" is probably a reasonable antonym, and "macho lesbian" does give us quite a few Ghits. Tevildo (talk) 22:45, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

"Viraginous" is also attested, although it's not a word that I would have at my fingertips. Tevildo (talk) 22:52, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

It probably means something like this. Contact Basemetal here 23:18, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Not the best piece of acting I've seen, I must admit. In stage combat, the _victim_ should be the one who does most of the business. Tevildo (talk) 23:31, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Mrs Dyke maybe? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:59, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Ah, yes, a virago: a woman who hasn't lost her viraginity. (I am starting a talk page thread on this tomboyfoolery.) μηδείς (talk) 01:56, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

And also a motorcycle. That has always puzzled me. To me, ビラゴ/birago doesn't sound particularly redolent of anything in Japanese. Tora-san? (男はつらいよ!) --Shirt58 (talk) 03:09, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Never heard that used before. The only word I ever heard in Japan was レズ, which was the name of a British friend of mine (who was male, and caused outbreaks of laughter when he introduced himself), but, hey, who said English teaching in Japan had to be serious? KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 04:41, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

It's a bit odd that wiktonary says nothing about ambiguous sexuality, because the only times I ever came acrost it seemed to imply homoeroticism. There's the odd word marimacho, used in Mexico for a lesbian, but not necessarily a "butch" one. Rural Mexican ideas are very different from Anglo-urban ones. μηδείς (talk) 04:00, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Oops, sorry. My obsession with conciseness strikes again. I was going off on a bit of a tangent. What I meant was that seemed odd to call a type of motorcycle "virago", and I couldn't think why that particular name was chosen, as it doesn't seem to be suggestive of anything in Japanese, at least to my limited knowledge.--Shirt58 (talk) 06:23, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Car names are very often random, but some are chosen for a purpose. For example, the Mitsubishi Shogun (jeep) in Arabic countries is called the Mitsubishi Wajiiru, which is Japanese pronounciation for the Arabic word 'waziir', which essentially means 'Shogun'. The bike is possibly called 'Virago' because you will be the first one to ride her. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 18:28, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

I've always found "freemartin" to be a good insulting word for lesbians, since it means a lesbian cow. StuRat (talk) 05:11, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Insulting lesbians is good?--Jayron32 05:30, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

The OP did ask for derogatory terms, although the topic has broadened. For instance, as a queer, I have always though the proper definition of gaybashing is what violent homosexuals do in self-defense against those who assault them first. (We don't seem to have an article on that (Bash Back! seems more of a pose and a club than a stance with a club), but there are incidences of this in New York City.) I always took freemartin to mean sterile from Huxley, Heinlein and Niven. But I am glad to be enlightened. μηδείς (talk) 06:06, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Is the word widely used to insult lesbians, as dyke is, or is Stu just inventing his own new word to be clever?--Jayron32 06:10, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

I've never heard it used as an insult, and Stu has invented his own unique definition. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:00, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

'Bean flicker'? KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 09:50, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Anecdote alert: When I was in Japan, one of my Japanese friends really loved to use the phrase 'Can I bum a fag', knowing the difference in UK and US English. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 11:21, 13 December 2014 (UTC)