Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 March 19

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March 19

swing the pen?

If I want to make my pen write more smoothly, I will move it quickly with the nib downward. I need a verb to describe such a movement, but I can't think of any one other than "swing". Is it a proper choice? Your opinion would be much appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.128.183.109 (talk) 03:09, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

shaking? agitating? —Nelson Ricardo (talk) 03:23, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

"Glide"? Clarityfiend (talk) 08:01, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

jiggle? (jolt?)---Sluzzelin talk 13:37, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Well, "to bic" sprang to mind, but apparently that means something else. So I'd certainly agree with "jiggle", even if it sounds slightly weak. I think jolt has connotations of a collision happening somewhere? e.g. pen nib with desk top etc. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:48, 19 March 2014 (UTC) p.s. is there a single term for "getting-pen-refill-out-of-pen-and-rubbing-it-briskly-between-the-palms"? I suspect not.

Need a Greek proverb/quote

I need a proverb or quote in Greek, to be used as an example. A requirement is that the words in the sentence can be related to either common English words having their origins in Greek or common Greek roots used in English words. Can someone suggest an example? --173.49.82.36 (talk) 12:42, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

We have a long list of Greek phrases which features many examples that fit your requirements. (The first example is "Ageōmétrētos mēdeìs eisítō").---Sluzzelin talk 13:46, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Abbreviation in frame of 17th-century painting

Portrait of Dr. Sibrandus Lubbertus (1616)

Anyone know what the abbreviation "SS." in the caption on the bottom edge of the frame means? Also, I assume "Theol: Profr." means professor of theology in Latin, but what are the original Latin words in full? — SMUconlaw (talk) 15:56, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Sanctissimae Theologiae Professor. Iblardi (talk) 16:14, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. Would "Most holy theology professor" be a suitable translation? — SMUconlaw (talk) 16:27, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Sanctissimae goes with Theologiae; hence, literally, "Professor of [the] Most Holy Theology". Iblardi (talk) 16:51, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Great! Thank you. — SMUconlaw (talk) 16:52, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

"unknown a priori"

Is the usage of "unknown a priori" correct? (To describe something that is unknown until empirically measured). It's been complained about in a review of some work I've done, and the reviewer has cited the dictionary definition of a priori [1]. While a quick google search turns up a lot of examples of that usage, in this particular case a reference (preferably a well respected one) specifically stating that it's acceptable would be much more useful. The particular context, is a sentence along the lines of "... where the location of the objects is unknown a priori". Other suggestions for simple ways to phrase it would also be appreciated. Thanks, MChesterMC (talk) 16:33, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

The usage is not incorrect, but the expression "a priori" has several slightly differing meanings, so my personal preference would be to avoid it's use after "unknown" because some readers will be thinking of other senses than the one intended, including the legal sense of "known ahead of time". Sorry this doesn't really answer the question that you asked. Dbfirs 17:26, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

• We'd have to see a bigger context. One could certainly say "these facts could not have been known a priori". Of course it is stylistically like speaking of an invisible mirage. μηδείς (talk) 20:47, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Of course, you could use the perfectly serviceable English word "beforehand" in that context, and not confuse anyone. When a word is likely to cause confusion, good writers simply choose a better word. --Jayron32 01:50, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd prefer "not known a priori"; "unknown a priori" suggests to me that the datum is predefined as an Unknown (as one might do in an abstract logical analysis). —Tamfang (talk) 05:40, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Italian

If words like "Novecento" and "Ottocento" mean 20th century and 19th century, how to say years like 900 and 800 in Italian?--2.245.92.86 (talk) 20:03, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

They are synonymous. If context does not make the meaning obvious, or if a distinction needs to be made, it is possible to distinguish l'anno 800 and il diciannovesimo secolo. Marco polo (talk) 20:16, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Though to be ultra-picky, l'Ottocento runs from 1800–1899, whereas il diciannovesimo secolo is from 1801–1900. --Trovatore (talk) 20:24, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

True, and if it were really necessary to specify 1800–1900 without saying "nell'ottocento", one could simply say "tra il 1800 ed il 1900". Marco polo (talk) 21:36, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Am I understanding correctly you don't just add mil or the equivalent in front like French and Spanish? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medeis (talk • contribs) 23:29, 19 March 2014‎

Not sure what you mean. To refer to the year 1952 in words, you say mille novecento cinquantadue, so there's your mil equivalent. But the century from 1900 to 1999 is il novecento, without the mille. --Trovatore (talk) 01:32, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

That's clarified it. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 17:09, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

And what comes after il novecento? I need to know cos it's coming up, like, soon. —Tamfang (talk) 05:38, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Dunno, but English has the same problem, as far as that goes. I suppose you can say "the twenty hundreds"? Trying to think whether I've ever actually heard that in the wild. --Trovatore (talk) 06:26, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I suppose a roughly equally satisfactory solution in Italian would be lo zerocento. --Trovatore (talk) 06:27, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Language being what it is, an appropriate term will emerge. It would be interesting to see what (if anything) the people using during 1000-1099 AD. In English, for 2000 to date, initially the years seemed to be often called "two-thousand" something, but once we passed 2009, the traditional usage "twenty" something seems to have become more and more prevalent. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:01, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

My suspicion is that the 20th-century film usually spoken as "Two Thousand And One: A Space Odyssey" had a significant influence on this. Ironically, I'm sure that Arthur Clarke has written somewhere that he had expected it to be spoken as "Twenty-Oh One . . . ." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 14:39, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs -- During 1000-1099 A.D., the vast majority of people did not commonly encounter A.D. dates in their daily lives (few beyond monkish chroniclers and those concerned with establishing the dates of observances in the Christian liturgical calendar had much concern for the Dionysian era). As for "an appropriate term will emerge" there's still not really an accepted term in English for the 2000-2009 decade (something which I would have had a hard time imagining in 1999)... AnonMoos (talk) 15:40, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

It's the same issue as what the first decade of any century would be. The 1910s, 1920s, etc. are obvious. But 1900s is ambiguous. Hence the oft-heard term "early 1900s". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:46, 21 March 2014 (UTC)