Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 May 20

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May 20

What does "All was frozen in limbo" mean here?

I am confused about "All was frozen in limbo" in the following context. Would you explain it for me? Thank you! The context is: My parents' divorce was final. The house had been sold and the day had come to move. Thirty years of the family's life was now crammed into the garage... All was frozen in limbo between the life just passed and the one to come. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.221.144.199 (talk) 00:30, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

"Frozen in limbo" would refer to a state of uncertainty that extends over a period of time. I am not sure what unclarity would apply to this. It strikes me as being a slightly creative word combination but it seems straightforward in meaning. Can you elaborate on the question concerning the phrase? Bus stop (talk) 00:53, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

The WP article on Limbo is a bit technical, but it's a Medieval Catholic concept that describes a state of existence for a soul that can't go to heaven, but isn't doomed to hell either (like Purgatory). It's like being suspended in between two places indefinitely, belonging neither here nor there. OttawaAC (talk) 01:25, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what you mean "like Purgatory". Catholic doctrine is that souls in Purgatory are saved — they will definitely go to Heaven; it's just a question of when. But you suffer in the mean time, as your sins are purged away and you become clean.

Limbo is not like that. If you're in Limbo, you can't go to Heaven, but you are also not punished. So it's really pretty different from Purgatory. --Trovatore (talk) 18:01, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Or maybe "frozen in limbo" is when your back goes out when trying to go under the limbo stick, and you are stuck there. :-) StuRat (talk) 03:04, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

"Frozen in limbo" strikes me as a mixed metaphor - combining two different idioms with approximately the same meaning, but which don't really make sense put together. Each part means "stopped, stalled, waiting for something to happen". --ColinFine (talk) 17:50, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, if using "limbo" as synonym for "purgatory" (although it's really not, see comment above), meaning a temporary stop while waiting to get into heaven, "frozen in limbo" could mean it's been extended, perhaps indefinitely. StuRat (talk) 18:01, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Limbo is not purgatory. They are distinctly different states in the afterlife according to Catholic theology. --Jayron32 23:27, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Did you miss what I put in parentheses ? StuRat (talk) 02:35, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Double negative in music

Quote from Double negative:

Because of their non-standard nature, such double negatives are often employed in literature and the performing arts as part of characterization, particularly to establish a speaker's lower-class or uneducated status. [...] In music, double negatives can be employed to similar effect (as in Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall", in which schoolchildren chant "We don't need no education / We don't need no thought control") or used to establish a frank and informal tone (as in The Rolling Stones' "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction.").

Do I get it straight that in Another Brick in the Wall, the double negative is rather, in itself, a rebellion against "education"? But as another example: What's the use of the double negative "I don't mean no harm" in Justin Timberlake's Rock Your Body? Might this be a subtle hint that he actually does harm? --KnightMove (talk) 20:46, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

I think you are reading too much into Timberlake's lyric. It is just written in a colloquial style. I don't know where you are from or if English is your first language, but lots of native speakers use that construction unselfconsciously. It isn't the prestige form or a form often used unselfconsciously by people in the upper middle class, but it is widely used. Marco polo (talk) 20:55, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Double negatives are also used informally for emphasis, with a negative meaning. That's almost certainly what you're seeing here. AlexTiefling (talk) 21:12, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Given the background of the members of Pink Floyd, as well as the subject matter, I would say that the Pink Floyd lyric is likely to be deliberately wrong. I would like to think it is ironic, but the message of the song actually seems to be genuinely anti-educational, so perhaps it is rebellious or sneering. The Justin Timberlake one is more likely intended as a colloquial phrasing, either consciously or unsconsciously. 86.169.185.216 (talk) 02:44, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Roger Waters, who hated school, knew exactly what he was writing. The song was absolutely anti-education. And the kids loved it.[1] Thincat (talk) 21:12, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

(related, but off-topic) 'During a lecture the Oxford linguistic philosopher J. L. Austin made the claim that although a double negative in English implies a positive meaning, there is no language in which a double positive implies a negative. To which Morgenbesser responded in a dismissive tone, "Yeah, yeah."'[2] Also, I believe double negatives are used as intensifiers in many languages, e.g. ancient Greek. SemanticMantis (talk) 22:11, 22 May 2014 (UTC)