Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 June 17

Language desk
< June 16	<< May | June | Jul >>	June 18 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

June 17

Horshoes

The Wiktionary entry for "horseshoe" states that it's always pronounced /ˈhɔːs.ʃuː/ in RP, but alternatively /ˈhɔːrs.ʃuː/ and /ˈhɔːr.ʃuː/ in US English. (1) Does the former pronunciation ever get used by USAians? I've only ever heard /ˈhɔːr.ʃuː/. (2) Do a significant number of UKians ever say /ˈhɔːs.ʃuː/? To my USAian tongue, the transition from s to ʃ is awkward, probably partly because I can't think of any other words that possess it; I don't understand why it wouldn't occur at all (or occur at all significantly) in UK English. Nyttend (talk) 02:47, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

For me (BE) it depends entirely on how slowly and carefully I'm speaking whether or not there is a distinct /s/ before for /ʃ/. --ColinFine (talk) 12:05, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

For me (South African English) it sounds identical to "whore shoe" (i.e. protitute's footwear) in fast speech - the "s" in horse dissapears, but not when pronounced more carefully. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:40, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

• I have spent most of my life in the NYC and Philly area, and say /ˈhɔ:rʃ.ʃuːz/. The ess is assimilated to esh except in very careful citation form elicitations, and without the gemination you end up with whore shoes. μηδείς (talk) 19:02, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

UKer here, and I pronounce the 's' distinctly from the 'sh' when speaking slowly. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 10:58, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I have heard Americans pronounce the "s" sometimes (in fact, I have also heard issue - is/shu, not as often as i/shu or from other countries, i/su) Alanscottwalker (talk) 19:11, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Forvo has a recording of a male from Minnesota saying /ˈhɔːrs.ʃuː/ at http://forvo.com/search/horseshoe/.

—Wavelength (talk) 19:13, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I did not mean to imply that I could not say it or wouldn't say it if using the citation form. In most cases it would be odd to hear an American make the effort if he weren't enunciating carefully on purpose. μηδείς (talk) 19:34, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

As an American, I might say 'let's play hor/shus', but than 'hang the hors/shu over the door'. And perhaps because of all the s's in the phrase, I could easily say, 'close only counts in hors/shus and hand grenades' Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

common root of greek puros and latin purare

It struck me that the english words purify and the prefix pyro- are probably linked in etymology (purifying flames, and all), but the page on Greek and Latin roots in English suggests that they are from latin and greek respectively. Is there a common route here, or just coincidence? --137.108.145.25 (talk) 15:55, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I mean root, of course:) --137.108.145.25 (talk) 15:55, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Just a coincidence - fire (and Greek pyr) are from wikt:Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/péh₂ur. Pure is from a different root that Wiktionary does not have an article for. Adam Bishop (talk) 17:04, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Lat. pūrus < PIt. pūro- "pure" < PIE ph₂ú-ro- "clear, cleansed". Connected to Gr. πῡρός, OE fyrs "wheat" < PIE puHro- "wheat" (Lubotsky 2008: 500-501).--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 17:59, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

The Modern English for fyrs is furze. μηδείς (talk) 19:05, 17 June 2015 (UTC)