Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 March 12

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March 12

Khmer "Prek Luong"

How would you translate the name of the village of Prek Luong (across the Mekong from Phnom Penh, with an interesting local legend about a prince who dug a canal with his magic hand and was killed by hos evil uncle). I've translated prek as canal though I think it also means a lake, and I'm told luong is a term for the royal family (I didn't quite understand that part - apparently the Cambodian royal family is luong, but the British royal family isn't). PiCo (talk) 11:29, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

As is the case with most translations, there isn't a one-to-one correspondence between English and Khmer terms for kinds of waterways. I think of a prek (Khmer: ព្រែក) as a moving waterway (never a lake) bigger than an ou (Khmer: អូរ), but smaller than a steung (Khmer: ស្ទឹង). In contrast to the other two words, prek does conjure up images of a wider, slower, murkier, possibly man-made waterway like you would expect to find in a delta/estuary system, hence it's commonly translated as "canal". However, although a very large canal could be called a prek, I would more often use ou to mean "canal" (unless it looked like a prek, lol). I prefer "waterway" or "channel" to translate prek, but that may just be my American English preference.

The Khmer word luong (Khmer: ហ្លួង) comes into Khmer from Thai: หลวง where it means "royal". In Khmer it is technically a title of royalty, similar to other titles of the court like meun, khun, preah, oknha, etc. Luong is the title usually directly below preah and often attached to the titles of princes, usually the Crown Prince. Upon assumption of the throne, luong is sometimes kept as part of the king's new royal style/title. From this practice, luong, in addition to its use as a title, can also be a way to refer to the king or queen: "his highness", "her highness". (British royals have never held the title "luong" so it wouldn't feel right using it to describe them.)

As for the name of the village, as a proper noun, I wouldn't translate it. But if asked the literal meaning of the words, I would probably say "the Prince's waterway", "the Prince's channel" or "the Prince's canal" if you prefer.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 05:41, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you William - who but you could answer such a question? I've amended what I'm writing to take your reply into account. You might find it interesting, so I'll paste it here:

Prek Luong village has a strange name, because a prek is a canal, and luong is a word describing princes, especially the crown prince. There’s a local legend of a prince with a magic hand who fled the royal capital at Oudong and built a palace here, and with his magic hand dug a canal to link his palace to the river. The legend also says that the prince had a wicked uncle who hunted him down and killed him. According to non-magical history something rather similar did happen in this area several centuries ago.

The resident neak ta of Prek Luong has no name. He was originally called Lok Ta Me Chas Srok, Ancestor Owner of the Village (lok ta has the same meaning as neak ta), in which form he was represented by a large stone. I rather wish I could see it – Prek Luong is on the banks of the Mekong with nothing but silt for miles around, and I suspect the neak ta stone might have been an artefact from an earlier age, but the Khmer Rouge took it away and nobody knows what happened next.

The man who told me this was Ta Krit, aged 81, a native of Prek Luong. In his youth Ta Krit was a communist, and so he survived the Khmer Rouge and became commune chief in 1979. He kept that position for the next thirty years, which bespeaks a sharp political mind.

One of his very first self-appointed tasks was to restore the lost neak ta of Prek Luong. How to do this? He noticed that the village cows were avoiding three succulent young banana saplings growing in a field on the edge the village. Upon investigating, he found a self-sown Bodhi tree growing between and protected by the plants. Under his direction the villagers built a small wooden shrine near the tree and invited their neak ta to take up residence in his new home. After three decades the tree has grown large, and the spirit is now called Lok Ta Dam Po, the Bodhi Tree Ancestor.

Prek Luong is a rather prosperous village, and several years ago Ta Krit had the wooden shrine replaced with a more substantial structure of cement and tiles. A little after that he commissioned a statue for the shrine to deter the local children from using it for their games – this would be bound to offend the neak ta, and he didn’t want the spirit to punish innocent infants for their play.

A sala chan, or dining hall for monks, has been built under the Bodhi tree near the shrine, and each February the four hamlets making up the village gather here for a harvest festival called “Walking the Fields.” The festival has the practical purpose of reminding everyone of the village boundaries and fields, and the spiritual one of asking the neak ta for his blessing of continued fertility.

Ta Krit told me that Neak Ta Dam Po is a strong neak ta, who always grants his people their requests. These are for the usual things – children, good health, and lucky lottery numbers. As an example of Dam Po’s power and benevolence Ta Krit quoted his own daughter’s wedding: the monsoon had lingered that year and black clouds were gathering as the day arrived, but Ta Krit prayed to the neak ta, the sky cleared, and the wedding was a great success. Ta Krit himself has never been sick in all his 81 years, and he puts this down to the goodness of the village patron.

Dam Po loves those who are honest, who speak the truth and keep their word, whose hearts are pure, who never harm others and are not greedy. But he must be treated with proper respect. He is happy for humans to share the mango trees that grow in his compound, but those who want to pick the fruit must ask permission first. Similarly the children are welcome to play in the sala chan, but not in the neak ta’s shrine, and they must not to throw stones, or use bad language in Dam Po’s presence. Those who anger him he punishes with illness. If someone in the village falls ill and the illness fails to respond to treatment in the clinic, Dam Po must be consulted through the kru to find out what spirit has been angered, and why.

The statue of Neak Ta Dam Bo shows a strongly-built middle aged man, squatting, with a clenched hand resting on one raised knee. This is a classic pose I’ve noticed in many male neak ta, though I don’t think anyone has ever done a study of neak ta iconography. I’m told it’s the pose of all lower spirit-beings. The other hand hangs downward with the palm turned outward in the generosity mudra. (The mudras are a set of stylised symbolic gestures for Buddha images – right hand raised with palm outward means dispelling fear, both hands cupped in the lap means meditation, and so on).

The statue is the work of a village artist, Hang Sovann, who also decorated the sala chan. I later met Hang Sovann, who told me that when he was young and poor he saw the neak ta quite often in dreams and waking, which is how he knew what it looked like, and the neak ta told him then that one day he would be rich and asked to be remembered when the time came.

PiCo (talk) 11:31, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

diasystems

Where do I find out on web a exhaustive list of diasystems?--80.117.219.220 (talk) 12:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

From reading the article, I very much doubt such a thing exists. In any case, are you just interested in English, or all languages? μηδείς (talk) 17:13, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I am italian and I know the english; if there are not exhaustive one, i search the most long one that there are.--79.18.183.166 (talk) 11:10, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

the most long-> the longest.--79.18.183.166 (talk) 11:14, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

search -> looking for / researching --14:00, 17 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.244.27.1 (talk)