Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2015 May 17

Language desk
< May 16	<< Apr | May | Jun >>	May 18 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

May 17

Greeting to mourners sitting shiva: "שאר" or "שער"?

The conventional greeting to mourners sitting shiva is המקום ינחם אתכם בתוך שאר אבלי ציון וירושלים I have heard that the word should not be שאר but שער. However I have searched but cannot find a source for this. Can any user please help? Thank you Simonschaim (talk) 13:29, 17 May 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.61.250.250 (talk)

I believe it's the word spelled with alef, meaning "the remainder of", as quoted here. I didn't examine the credentials of www.shiva.com but the translation and context are consistent with mainstream practice (across various traditional backgrounds of observance) I've encountered for Hebrew/English usage in contemporary Israel.-- Deborahjay (talk) 19:30, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Simonschaim (talk) 13:25, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

"giving" and "receiving"

I never understood why one sex partner "gives", and the other sex partner "receives". However, I am not entirely sure exactly WHAT is being given or received. I speculate that the object that is being given/received is sexual pleasure, yet I think it may be also bodily fluids. How does one know who is the giver and who is the receiver? 140.254.136.149 (talk) 21:04, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

QED, OuroborosCobra. μηδείς (talk) 02:15, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

In North America (and elsewhere), a person performing oral sex on someone is said to "give" it and the other person "receives" it. That is, it refers to sexual pleasure as a gift that can be given. For other sex acts, the giving and receiving is less well defined and probably has more to do with the point of view of the speaker. However, this is all culturally determined; it was my understanding that the terms for oral sex "giving" and "receiving" were reversed in ancient Roman times, but Sexuality in ancient Rome is not backing me up on that. Matt Deres (talk) 12:28, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I actually find that very helpful and meaningful. I'm also going to look up Sexuality in ancient Rome, now that you've mentioned it. 140.254.136.178 (talk) 13:36, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

As a cultural note, I've heard that one person equated the terms (giving and receiving) to seme and uke. He merely smiled afterwards, when I asked him what exactly was being given/received. I did have the hunch that it had something to do with sex. For those of you who don't know seme and uke, seme is the top/dominant, while uke is the bottom/submissive during sex. If the seme is the male and the uke is the female, and assuming that we talking about bodily fluids, then the male seme would be the giver and the female the receiver. However, that was before I became certain that it was about sexual pleasure, not bodily fluids. 140.254.136.178 (talk) 13:48, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

So your point is that you already knew the answer you wanted, and were just testing us? μηδείς (talk) 22:29, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Lack of relative directions

Relative direction notes that some languages don't have a concept of relative direction, e.g. one group of Australian Aborigines refer to everything as north/south/east/west when speaking in their native language. But how do such languages account for things like left/right nostrils, left/right hands, etc.? And if you're speaking in the native language in question, how would you explain "Here in Queensland, we drive on the left side of the road"? Presumably nobody here is conversant in this specific language; I'm just looking for a general idea (or examples) of how no-relative-direction languages can handle such concepts. Nyttend (talk) 22:00, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

You could just point to the nostril in question. Or, you can compose directions like "The south nostril, when you are looking west". (Which reminds me of "He looks like the southern end of a north-bound mule".) As for hands, there might actually be a different word for the right hand and the left, especially if they are used for different things (some cultures use one for eating and the other for ass-wiping). StuRat (talk) 22:44, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

You're guessing again. A better idea: read the article about the language, and then read the sources provided in the article, and you'll find, for example, that the lexicon distinguishes between left and right hands, and left and right handedness. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 02:34, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Read the question again. Nyttend didn't ask for specifics on one language, he asked for "for a general idea (or examples) of how no-relative-direction languages can handle such concepts". StuRat (talk) 23:29, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but if you guess, you're giving a general idea or examples of how they might handle such concepts, not of how they do handle such concepts. The former is brain-storm territory and has no necessary relationship with the truth, and since this is a reference desk, it is of questionable value. The only proper answer to the question, while it may be couched in general terms, must proceed from actual knowledge of actual languages of this type. It could be your pre-existing knowledge of such a language(s), or it could come from a reference you've identified in a search. But a straight guess? Sorry, but that's not good enough, Stu. You may as well guess a translation of War and Peace from the original Russian, without any knowledge of Russian. I'm sure publishers would just love that. I have a strange feeling of déja vu as I type these words ... -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:10, 19 May 2015 (UTC)