Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 July 6

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July 6

Remedial writing

What is a typical syllabus and literature for a remedial writing course for high school students heading to college? --Hofhof (talk) 14:00, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

I googled "Remedial writing programs for high school students" and got many hits, including. http://www.diannecraft.org/language-arts-writing-program/. Loraof (talk) 17:09, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Pretty thin this resource you linked. And it's not even for high school students. That's rather for small children learning the basics. --Hofhof (talk) 20:41, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Did Loraof's good faith effort not at least suggest to you that you google remedial writing programs for college students, then get back to us? After all, it's highly unlikely we have a list of such books as a wp article. μηδείς (talk) 18:03, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Narner

What is a "narner" in British English? It seems to mean a foolish or gormless person, a bit of an idiot. Is it anything connected with a banana? Thank you. 86.188.121.105 (talk) 18:11, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

See wiktionary:nana#Etymology_1 Rojomoke (talk) 18:48, 6 July 2016 (UTC) (restored after accidental deletion)

I believe Rojo is implying that it means they are as intelligent as a banana. There are many similar insulting comparisons with food, like "muttonhead" and "meathead" or calling a person a "vegetable". StuRat (talk) 19:47, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Or maybe an allusion to a banana-shaped part of the male anatomy. Who knows? Alansplodge (talk) 19:58, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The Oxford Learners Dictionaries Online says "(old-fashioned, British English, informal) a stupid person. Word Origin - 1960s: perhaps a shortening of banana". I think they may be the only people in Britain who are in any doubt about it being a shortening of banana. I haven't heard it uttered for some years. Alansplodge (talk) 19:51, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Is it ever used other than in the phrase "a right nana"? I've never heard it used on its own. Tevildo (talk) 23:52, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

The song "My Old Man's a Dustman", i think, has the line "he looks a proper nana in [garments]". —Tamfang (talk) 01:25, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

The way the Rovers sing it, anyway, to me it sounds like "he looks so proper done up in his great big hobnail boots."[1] But this earlier recording by Lonnie Donegan certainly sounds like "nana".[2] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:47, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

My Old Man's a Dustman is the article, apparently based on a First World War soldiers' ditty, but sharing none of the exact lyrics. This site has: "He looks a proper narner...". Alansplodge (talk) 08:24, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

It sounds exactly like "looks a proper nana" to me in the Irish Rovers' recording (at 1:39). AndrewWTaylor (talk) 12:26, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

And the Irish don't drop the trailing "r", so "nana" seems more likely than "narner". But it could also be a variation in the lyrics. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:35, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

"Narner" mimics the pronunciation in a London accent. Lonnie Donegan, who grew up in East Ham, first sang the song (in its current form) in 1960. Alansplodge (talk) 21:22, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Rhotic Americans are sometimes confused by non-rhotic British respellings with r's in them. Sade once wrote in her liner notes that her name was pronounced "shar-day" or some such, which completely misled a lot of her American fans. Americans would have pronounced it the way she wanted, if she had only written "shah-day", but apparently that means some different sound to the British; I've never understood exactly what. The Penguin Book of Card Games claims that skat is pronounced scart, and my father insisted on pronouncing it that way (rhotically) when I taught it to my parents. --Trovatore (talk) 07:36, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

That would have introduced the risk of "Shadday", with the "cat" vowel. Tevildo (talk) 08:03, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

What, is that how they pronounce shah? I guess a nation capable of ‘Nicaræg-yua’ shouldn't surprise me. —Tamfang (talk) 08:32, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, /ʃæ/ is the "obvious" BrE pronunciation of "shah", until one hears about the Shah of Persia. The obvious pronunciation of the singer's name is /seɪd/, to rhyme with "maid" - the first correction would be to /sɑːd/, as in "Marquis de", which - um - rhymes with lots of words with an "r" in them (card, hard, lard, guard...). Tevildo (talk) 08:50, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

So is the quasi-word "ah" pronounced /æ/ there? —Tamfang (talk) 21:15, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

I would say so, but finding sources to back me up is proving unexpectedly difficult. I would make a clear distinction between /æ/ as in "Ah! There it is!", expressing pleasant surprise, and /ɑː/ as in "Ahh, that's better", expressing simple pleasure, but most on-line dictionaries give both meanings under the single interjection "Ah". Someone with access to more comprehensive sources might be able to assist. Tevildo (talk) 14:19, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

(Southern British English): ɑː ðɛər ɪt ɪz, ɑːː ðæts bɛtər. As a non-rhotic dialect, the final r in the second phrase is not sounded. Bazza (talk) 15:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

TIL that (per our article) skat is derived from Italian scarto, and of course Italian is rhotic. So maybe my dad was right after all. That would please him. --Trovatore (talk) 04:47, 9 July 2016 (UTC)