Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 June 23

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June 23

the meaning of 'Joint Head of School'

Would you please tell me the meaning of 'Joint Head of School'in the next sentence?

  But there was nothing I could do about it, and so at the end of August 1943
  I entered the third-year sixth and became Joint Head of School.--
  Margaret Thstcher, The Path to Power, p.34123.221.73.147 (talk) 02:58, 23 June 2016 (UTC)dengen

She was one of two or more head girls. Rojomoke (talk) 03:04, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm sure it's not usual to have two Head Girls. Far more likely that there was a Head Boy and a Head Girl, but which one Thatcher was, I don't know. Akld guy (talk) 06:14, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Akld guy, she was at Kesteven and Grantham Girls' School. There were no boys. Rojomoke (talk) 06:41, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

You're right. The article Margaret Thatcher says she became 'head girl', which makes her 'Joint Head' statement in the book a puzzle. Kesteven and Grantham Girls' School is located very close to the boys' school, King's School, Grantham, and today they have shared classes. Is it possible that the two schools had a close relationship even back in 1943, and this is what Thatcher meant when she said she was Joint Head (with the Head Boy from King's)? Akld guy (talk) 07:03, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Unlikely, IMHO. The tendency in those days would have been to keep the two bodies of pupils apart as much as possible (so as to keep... bodies apart as much as possible). More likely that the headmistress appointed two girls to share responsibility, for some reason. Rojomoke (talk) 07:53, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

What's a "third-year sixth"? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:29, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

An extra year of sixth form, for candidates taking Oxford or Cambridge entrance exams (see the linked article). In short, the final year before university, specifically to prepare for the entrance examinations of the top-tier universities MChesterMC (talk) 08:34, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Also used to accommodate students who were unable to complete (for various reasons) their required studies during the usual two years of sixth form, not necessarily for the sole reason of gaining entrance to those universities. Bazza (talk) 10:24, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

On User:Akld guy's point ("it's not usual to have two Head Girls"), St Paul's School, London has "two Head Boys and two Head Girls". Alansplodge (talk) 12:21, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

More to the point is whether it was usual to have two in earlier decades and specifically in 1943. And I don't think it was, at least in New Zealand, which had very much the same public school system as in Britain. Akld guy (talk) 13:33, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Be aware that public school may not mean the same to everyone. The school referred to in the original question was a state school. Bazza (talk) 15:32, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

@ MChesterMC: Thanks. I had heard of the Upper and Lower Sixth, but always assumed that meant the class was split into two because of numbers or some such reason. I didn't appreciate that a single form could take 2 years to complete (since none of the earlier forms did). Strange, different, unusual. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:17, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Even weirder, many schools still have a sixth form, even tough they no longer have a first to fifth forms (we now use "Year 7" instead of first form). Nobody has ever accused us of being logical. Alansplodge (talk) 21:04, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

When the grammar schools were largely abolished and comprehensive education came in, the "sixth form" of the grammar school system disappeared. To cater for the able children now taught in comprehensive schools "Sixth Form Colleges" were established, separate from the normal stream. 86.177.172.210 (talk) 00:36, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

That may have happened in some cases, but is not generally true. My grammar school became a comprehensive while I was there, but the sixth form remained and I was in the sixth form of that comprehensive school.--Phil Holmes (talk) 07:41, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

[Banned user's contribution deleted] Tevildo (talk) 19:53, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

"next in earlier preference"- what does that mean?

the names of two or more candidates whether continuing or not are marked with the same figure and are next in earlier preference; Seen here What has earlier got to do with this? --14.139.185.2 (talk) 11:06, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

What difference does it make, if you say "next in earlier preference" instead of "next in order of preference"? Does "next in earlier preference" make any sense at all? --14.139.185.2 (talk) 06:36, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

stake one's reputation on a particular cause

There's an idiom that I'm searching for. Google [and/or my brain] is failing me. The meaning is, roughly, to make a stand about a particular issue and/or stake one's reputation on a particular thing.

The context goes like this:

Person A - "Person X is making bogus claims about such and such. I've seen it happen long enough and I'm taking a stand!"

Person B - "I don't think [______]. Person X may have made some bogus claims in the past, but it looks like they have a bit of a point here, so by making a stand this time you're not being effective and you might even be the one to look bad."

Something like "[verb] your [noun] to/on that [noun]".

E.g. "hitch your wagon to that train", but not that. It is metaphorical, though, so also not the straightforward "stake your reputation on that claim".

Does that even make sense? :) — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 20:25, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Hitch your horse to that wagon? Loraof (talk) 22:50, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

The google search box returns "don't hitch your wagon to a [falling] star". Loraof (talk) 22:53, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

See http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/stake+reputation+on.

—Wavelength (talk) 22:59, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Don't hang your hat [on]? Akld guy (talk) 23:22, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

I did try Google and went through various keywords on that idioms site with no luck. "Hitch your wagon to a star" (falling or otherwise) seems more along the lines of "riding coattails" or "following someone off a cliff" or somesuch, which isn't really what I'm going for. "Hang your hat on" seems like it might be a version of what I'm thinking of, but I could've sworn there was something more involved, like if there were a particular noun which followed "hang your hat on [other/continued metaphor]"... this is killing me :) — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 00:32, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

"Nail your colours to the mast" is the traditional British expression, but I don't know if it's common in the States. In your sentence, it would be "I don't think you should nail your colours to that [particular] mast", which is not the sort of expression that most style guides encourage. Tevildo (talk) 07:51, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Jump on the bandwagon? --TammyMoet (talk) 11:07, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Bet the farm on? 195.89.37.174 (talk) 11:51, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

"Is that a hill you want to die on?"/ "that's not a hill you want to die on"? [1] SemanticMantis (talk) 18:18, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Do people routinely die on hills, or are you confusing it with mountains? KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 20:10, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

The metaphor is military - see, for example, Hamburger Hill and The Hill. Tevildo (talk) 21:40, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Being picky, but the second film is not a good example as it refers to a sand heap in a military prison which the inmates were required to run up and down, rather than a place to make a last stand. Battle of Bunker Hill or Battle of Malvern Hill might have been better. Alansplodge (talk) 01:10, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

That's indeed a common pattern; in our country, we had the renowned Battle of Ammunition Hill --80.4.147.222 (talk) 10:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Hmm. I still might argue that the title of the Sean Connery film employs the concept - hills have never been congenial places for soldiers, whether or not the enemy is actively involved. Shall we compromise on "not as good an example? Tevildo (talk) 01:33, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

We shall. Alansplodge (talk) 15:46, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, and it also has the feel of tying oneself closely to another thing, which is I think what OP was going for. Also sort of related in terms of military metaphor to "choose your battles wisely" and variants. SemanticMantis (talk) 22:39, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

"Die in a ditch": That's not the sort of thing you want to die in a ditch about. Perhaps? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 09:40, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

There are lots of variations that could be used there. "You don't want to... put all your chips on that, pin all your hopes on that, bet your bottom dollar on that, take a stand on that, etc." Not something you'd want to hang your hat on. Matt Deres (talk) 16:24, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Or indeed, 'put all your eggs in one chicken.' KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 19:00, 29 June 2016 (UTC)