Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 March 16

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March 16

Can't Find Definition

What does breviloquent mean? It was used by the character Raymond Redding on Blacklist and I can't find a definition anywhere.50.153.125.142 (talk) 03:13, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

From the Latin, it presumably means taking talking briefly or concisely. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:17, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Taking what briefly? Do you mean 'borrowing'? KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 04:51, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

I think Robert meant "talking". wikt:breviloquent. Rojomoke (talk) 05:07, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes. A typo that would confuse someone who didn't know the Latin roots. Oops. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:30, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm looking for a series of four words, which means "to surprise", and which consists of the word "to" - followed by a verb - followed by the words "a surprise".

I wonder if the expression "to do/make a surprise", which is sometimes used in the spoken language, could also be used in the written language. HOTmag (talk) 11:06, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

"Give" would work, and if so, these would work too. --Jayron32 11:15, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

"To reveal a surprise" sounds natural to me, as does "to unveil a surprise", if it's something akin to a work of art. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 11:32, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

To spring a surprise on someone. 109.150.174.93 (talk) 11:39, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Yep, 'to spring a surprise' is the obvious one... though I guess you could also 'foist a surprise' (normally for unwelcome surprises) GrahamHardy (talk) 12:26, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

"Spring" was my first thought, too, although "unleash" might work with a particularly big surprise (especially a furry one). StuRat (talk) 17:47, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Why exactly four words? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:52, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

I meant "not less than four words" (I assume you understand why this can't be less). HOTmag (talk) 00:30, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

So you're actually looking for "a series of at least four words"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:37, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. For example, the series: "to spring a surprise on", contains five words, and means "to surprise". HOTmag (talk) 07:44, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

How do I correctly punctuate a date range involving years?

Let's say that I need to list a date range (for example, 1978 - 1984). Questions: (1) Do you use a hyphen, an en-dash, or an em-dash? (2) Do you put spaces or no spaces before/after the dash (for example, 1978-1984 versus 1978 - 1984)? (3) And what is the proper format for when the years contain many of the same digits? (For example, if I want to describe 1972 to 1979: Is it 1972-1979 or 1972-79 or 1972-9 ...?) Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:27, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

According to WP:MOS#In ranges that might otherwise be expressed with to or through

In ranges that might otherwise be expressed with to or through:

pp. 211–19; 64–75%; the 1939–45 war

Thus, en dash with no spaces, with the 19 omitted from 1945 and the 2 omitted from page 219

Loraof (talk) 21:09, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

So for 1972 to 1979, is it 1972-79 or 1972-9 ...? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:08, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I'd use 1972-79, and pp. 211-219. The only reason we can omit the first two digits on years is that it's customary. Otherwise, it's likely to cause confusion (211-19 might be taken to mean something like the 19th item on page 211). StuRat (talk) 17:19, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

See MOS:DATERANGE. For example, just to be totally aggravating, a person's lifespan does include the full year of death. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:28, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

A direct clear, rational quote from WP:MOS#Dashes in which most editors believe, and Loraof quoted its main part above:

"Do not mix en dashes with prepositions like between and from.

450–500 people;

between 450 and 500 people, not between 450–500 people;

from 450 to 500 people, not from 450–500 people;

If negative values are involved, an en dash might be confusing. Use words instead.

−10 to 10, not −10–10;

The en dash in a range is always unspaced, except when at least one endpoint of the range includes at least one space.

23 July 1790 – 1 December 1791, not 23 July 1790–1 December 1791;

14 May – 2 August 2011, not 14 May–2 August 2011;

10:30 pm Tuesday – 1:25 am Wednesday; Christmas Day – New Year's Eve; Christmas 2001 – Easter 2002;

1–17 September; February–October 2009; 1492? – 7 April 1556;

Best absorbed were wavelengths in the range 28 mm – 17 m." [Quotation ended]

For most uses of en dashes and em dashes, and where one is allowed to insert a space before/after them, you can read WP:Manual_of_Style#Dashes. :) Hamid Hassani (talk) 13:31, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

That's assuming Joseph is asking for the purposes of Wikipedia. In the wider world, there are more options. For example, MOS frowns on spaced emdashes in article space — but I find them useful and natural, and use them freely in talk space. --Trovatore (talk) 21:10, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

You dashing rebel, you. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:33, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Geez, who would have thought it would be such a complex issue? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:00, 18 March 2016 (UTC)